The argument for convention may be strengthened by noticing how much YA is written in present tense. Young readers, without a lot of experience, seem totally fine with present tense. If we're suggesting the preference is nurture-based, you'd think they'd be more likely to reject present tense than adults, since they're closer to their un-influenced state. But that's not what we see.
Well, you did make a conclusion about the human race, you just pointed out you didn't have any evidence for it beyond anecdotal. See the bit after your hyphen Nothing wrong with that, I just have a different feeling about it.
"it's jarring because we naturally tell stories in the past tense." Hope this helps you understand why we're disagreeing with you. (I'm ready for a fight, @Tenderiser! Bring it! We'll scrap about verb tense! Grrrrr! Rowf, rowf! (that was my angry bark). ! I HAPPILY disagree with Tenderiser!)
I see... so if I point out (which I didn't think was necessary) that I'm talking about my experience of listening to humans tell stories, which means English speaking ones, that gets rid of Niall's objection. Steerpike's argument was that some people like reading present tense, which isn't relevant to my point that we (English speaking people) normally (since naturally apparently means something else) tell stories in the past tense. Yeah, I stand by it.
It's kinda circular though, isn't it? I mean, really, it's pretty much what others have been saying - English-speaking people normally (but certainly not always) tell stories in past tense, which means we aren't used to present tense so when we see it we may find it jarring. But if we told more stories in present tense so it wouldn't be jarring, then... it wouldn't be jarring. ?
Yeah... so we agree then. No need for a punch up. Are people disagreeing with "it's jarring" and not the rest? Because I'm confused about what we actually disagree about. :S I'm reading more present tense (not for pleasure, since it isn't pleasurable, but for critique) in the hope that I'll stop hating it. Hasn't happened yet but maybe it's like olives and it'll come with age...
Well, that's disappointing - we've been getting along pretty well for a long time, I thought a punch up might make things more lively. I think any disagreement is about whether there's something inherently problematic about present tense (as @ChickenFreak suggested in the post you agreed to) or whether it's simply a matter of what readers are used to. That's all.
Aha, that makes sense. I think it's going to be problematic for as long as children grow up hearing stories told in past tense. You mentioned YA; I read some of Philippa Gregory's historical novels when I was 13-ish. Something always bugged me about them, even though I was interested in the subject matter. They felt somehow flat, somehow dull. It wasn't until recently that I had the terminology to put my finger on it--they were written in present tense. For me, somehow, it sucks all the colour and tension out. I don't know what else I might have read in present tense, because I wouldn't have had that language to apply to novels at that age. I wish I knew so I could see if there were some where it didn't make the novel feel flat and dull... but that's still my experience now.
But there seem to be a lot of teens today who don't have this issue, right? I mean, I totally accept that you and @ChickenFreak and others have trouble enjoying a novel that's written in present tense. I'm just not sure I accept your theory about the reason you don't enjoy it.
Or are there a lot of teens who read present tense and something feels off but they can't identify it? We just don't know. Probably best to talking about why we personally like or dislike something...?
Tenses aren't something I can logically reason with, (my gut tells me what I should be writing, not my brain, unfortunately) and it's caused a few problems in the past. I've been trying to settle on a style that helps to nullify, let's call them my 'quirks,' and in doing so have settled on rather anecdottal sounding, First Person accounts that, in typical oral story telling tradition, have the narrator firmly rooted in the present, whilst devulging details of the past. It's a bit weird, tbh, as I really don't enjoy reading First Person, for the most part, but writing in it allows me to be pass remarkable in the present without the obvious incursions that would be felt in Third. I can still retain the colour of a piece but have the immediacy of First when it comes to mental tangents. At least, I think so. I really can't imagine writing wholly in First Person Present, at least not the blow-by-blow accounts of events happening right then. It just seems limiting to me, somehow. (Rightly, or wrongly.)
I don't think it should be a surprise that, when you use "natural", people assume you mean that something is "natural", as in "to err from this would be unnatural", or somehow universally problematic. That was your conclusion, even if you go on to admit the evidence is flawed.
Meh, stories will have been written in the future perfect, Solar-molar, by the time the future comes, and you will have been harping fruitlessly for many longs days. But not passive[ly]. A story, tale or yarn (or poem up your street) will have been written by then that shows us active is still the best.
Strangely enough although I'm more used to past tense in fiction, when I'm writing history essays present tense comes more naturally (to me at least), eg "In 1883 Mr X makes a proposition to parliament" or whatever, which I've never really understood. I've not been called out for using this tense so far. And I have seen it a bit in historical fiction as well (as @Tenderiser mentioned with PG's books). So I guess it depends on convention of the genre as well as what we're used to.
Certainly in literary essays the convention is to use present tense when referring to events in a book. (I've not seen it in formal history essays, though...)
Wayjor Frippery-slippery, One day I will respond to your post after writing an entire novel in future tense. It will be about a man who'll do this and that. He'll meet some people and say some things. It will be called: The Plan. I'll write it under the pseudonym of Will I Shakespeare Yes I Will. Then I'll pick up a javelin and shake it around while speaking in blank verse.
...and in movie reviews in popular media. ETA: Brilliant. Will I have been Shakespeare on completion? Will I have been entertained?
A lot of my essays have focused on historical literature of some sort (religious and medical publications to be precise) so perhaps I've inadvertently adhered to the literary rather than historical convention. Whether I'm doing it right or wrong I don't know, and I've been meaning to ask my tutor about this in more depth for a while now, but it can't have been so far wrong that it was jarring to read or it would have been mentioned. But this is non-fiction writing rather than fiction, so a bit off topic.
Your theory is more logical than mine. Mine requires substantial evidence that I absolutely don't have. I would be stunned if I managed to persuade you of mine. I stick with mine anyway.
Another who absolutely hates it and I actually will and do skip stories based on tense. I generally can't get into it enough to find out whether it's really engaging. My loss. But, and this will sound totally hypocritical, I have a story in queue now that's present tense. Why? Exactly as Oscar Leigh said: for a particular reason--it's a dream sequence and I feel it works for that specific reason. Otherwise, as people have said, I find it not one bit more intimate or immediate than past tense, just different, even though now it's a trend. But in the end, I also agree with the point that it's your story, so write it the way you feel/enjoy. Be damned the prudes like me. Someone will love it.
On the other hand, it's foreign and bizarre to me. There may not be anything that matters less to me in terms of stylistic choice than tense. POV runs a close second.
My concern is mostly for the OP writer, @Terrie000 . If she is more comfortable writing in present tense and feels it will reflect her writer's voice, then by all means she should go for it. Anything that helps her get her story out there is a good thing. Some people like stories in present tense. Others don't care and will go with the author's choice. Some will hate that choice and will refuse to read your story, just like some hate prologues and won't read them either. No matter what you do, somebody's not going to like it. So do whatever works. Another thing to consider: you can always change the tense during an edit. It would be painstaking work, but not impossible and not all that difficult. So if you get finished writing in present tense and then realise (on your own or via feedback) that it might work better in a version of past tense, then it's simple enough to go through and change it. You really have nothing to lose. Get your story out there the best way you can. Good luck, and have fun! And maybe start to read more as well? Nothing gives you a feel for how story flow works than reading other successful stories. Just pick the ones that interest you. Don't worry about reading what somebody else thinks you should read. Choose your own, and get immersed in the medium. That's really one of the best ways to learn. If you're not sure what a story should look like and sound like and read like, you're going to struggle a bit. It would be like trying to make a movie when you haven't watched any.
