What, an anonymous person on the internet might not believe me? That is a blow. As for good books...The Martian is one of the more highly acclaimed SF works of the last year or so. I think the guy published it on Wattpad, then self-published it as a book, and got so much good press a traditional publisher picked it up. I've read a number of self-published books, some of which were truly awful and that I gave up on relatively quickly, and some of which I enjoyed quite a bit.
Take it to private chat. We're not interested in reading bickering. As for the topic, there are success stories and failures with all methods. Aim for success but prepare for failure. Self-publishing is like starting a business. You need to do it smart, research the market, advertise, and -- most importantly -- offer value, quality, or both.
Umm, to be fair, he was accused of filling in between the lines of @Steerpike's post and the "invented details" were incorrect assumptions about what @Steerpike said. But I agree, this tiff has run its course.
GingerCoffee, I think it is wrong for those who self-publish to tell new writer self-publishing is the way to go. Most writers who self-publish are looking for the easy way. To be published by a major publisher takes time, and work. And no, not many will see their book in the window of B & N. I had a friend who died at 84. He was a writer for several newspapers. His one book was about his time in the Army during WW2. He wanted to leave his story in book form for his family, so he published with a scam company just to get several books for family members. Is the pulp publishing going away? No. It has a normal increase of 17% a year. Standard publisher will take over sales on the net if it goes in that direction. They have the money to advertise in a big way…will Amazon do that for your book? I don’t think so. There are a million scam companies on the net that just feed off new writers. If an agent contacts you, one you have not contacted, and charges a small reading fee…run like H-ll. Book printing companies also scam new writers with, “You keep all your rights, and make 100% of the profit…they will print on demand, and only charge a setup fee, and the cost of books you sell. What they don’t tell you is you are the one who has to advertise your book…you have to be the marketing, and sales force for your book. In short, you are taking on all the jobs, and cost of a standard publisher…good luck with that. If a new writer has not perfected the art of writing, can’t write a good story, and won’t take the time needed to learn, then yes, I would say throw your book out there as one of the millions of self-published books lost on the net. Is self-publishing taking a part of the sales away from the pulp industry? Yes. If 200,000,000 new writers self-publish, that takes away from the standard-publishers. Does that mean self-publishers are making more money? Sure. Some may get $2.00, or even $5.00 more a YEAR for a few years…or until the next 200,000,000 new self published books hit the net. I have seen many well written books on the net by new writers…but without good marketing, and sales…they don’t sell many books. Some will tell you, “Give your book away for free for a few months”…has nobody told you, People download your free book to all their friends…it’s like a grass fire in the heat of summer. if someone uses a good part of your book to build their book, and by chance you find out, it may cost you tens of thousands to sue them. You would have to read all the books on the net to find if somebody did that. A standard publisher would go after them in a heart beat...any they have the money to do so.
I never said he may was lying. he did say he was published, and then he said he has yet to publish a book? I knew an attorney one time who had a person on the stand. The person told two different stories about the same subject. My attorney friend asked the person: "Where you lying the first time, or are you lying now?" I was not trying to be right...I was right. He said I was just making things up. He also came out and said he was published, giving reason why he could say I was wrong. I have never jumped off of a sky scraper, but I don't have to in order to say what would happen at the end of such a the fall.
Go back and re-read where you think @Steerpike said he was yet to publish. He published a different kind of book, now he's working on a novel. You made an accusation based on misunderstanding something.
@domenic.p It sounds like you think traditionally published authors make a lot of money on their books, which isn't true. And because you shouldn't expect to make a significant amount of money from either avenue, non-revenue factors might be given much greater weight than revenue.
This was taken from steerpikes profile page: Claims he is published. Location: California, USA Occupation: Intellectual Property Attorney / Writer Are you published?: Yes Favorite Writers: There isn't just one that I can single out. Favorite Books: The Brothers Karamazov Favorite Quotes: ...in this world there's two kinds of people, my friend. Those with loaded guns, and those who dig. Religious Beliefs: Unspecified Gender: Male Page two of this thread he said. "This is factually false, at least as an absolute statement, as I had an agent who has placed a lot of books with traditional publishers interested in reading my self-published book and my sales for that book were not anywhere close to number. More like around 1500 sales over the course of a year on that one. Very low number." Agents who work with standard-publisher do not go out looking for books in the self-published world. They have so many queries they at times have to stop taking queries. If he is going to say I don't know what I'm talking about...don't try to prove it by making up stories.
I'm still waiting for that evidence. What do you base these declarations on? The personal anecdotes of an unpublished author are not very strong evidence without more to back it up. As for advising people to self publish, we're not infants here. By the time someone finishes a novel it's unlikely they would have gotten that far without hearing a lot about traditional publishing and self publishing. Very few people are ripped off by the vanity presses these days, especially when you can e-publish for free including print on demand books where the reader pays the publisher, the author doesn't. Here you are saying you have half a dozen books, you've been writing for 20 years, and you haven't yet submitted one to a publisher? That's your business but I don't see how that says much about your credentials to tell others not to self-publish. I posted links describing more than 50 self published authors who have best sellers. That is evidence. Watch this short clip from a publishers panel on CSPAN's Book TV which I watch regularly. It begins with a discussion of how technology is changing the publishing industry. I've seen several of these publisher panels and anyone who thinks ePub is not a viable alternative is living in the past. http://www.c-span.org/video/?c1887230/clip-book-publishers-panel
You sir are free to think what you wish. Me, I will go by the figures the publishing Industry puts out each year. There are many who get $500,000- $800,000 advance. I want to be one of these. I will not try to sell my work for 99 cents, and cry at the end of the year because little, or no money comes from my efforts. I set my goal many years ago, and I don't change course because it is hard.
Best sellers are posted by the New York Times. Are you saying the new York Times is now posting ebook best sellers, or does the ebook field have its own best seller list?
Here are 6 publisher panels from BookTV. I've seen most of them. Watch an hour at a time, it's well worth any writer's time. http://www.c-span.org/search/?searchtype=All&query=publisher+panels
Dude, there's been a NYT best seller eBook list for years. http://www.nytimes.com/best-sellers-books/e-book-fiction/list.html
Self-Published Authors Make NY Times Best Sellers List http://authorearnings.com/report/july-2014-author-earnings-report/
People win the lottery, too. Doesn't mean you should buy a boat if you have a ticket. The chances of being published and being a best-seller, or self-publishing and being a best seller, are both practically 0.0001%. Of coarse I'm pulling figures out of my sludge pot, but that $800K advance will be damned hard to get, even with a great manuscript. Sure, the chances of success are greater with a publisher, but you gotta get one first.
My book isn't finished. It will be soon, and I will send query letters, and pitch to publishers this July at the PNWA conference. But, unlike you, I am not afraid to put my work out there on my own if I don't have any publisher interest. I think I've written a good book. I plan to publish it one way or the other. And I expect I'll need to make a decent effort to get publicity for it. While that's going on, I'll be writing the second book in the duology. I'll give the first one away to get the word out, build an interest. Money is not my goal, people reading my book on the other hand, that would be great! If they like it, the second one should sell, maybe even be traditionally published. But all I'm looking for is people to read my book and say, "that was good," then tell someone else about it.
I have no fear of putting my work out there...I want to give it the best I can. Good luck with your method of building followers...many others have done the same thing...good luck.
On a BIG side note: The main thing that is stopping me from sending my current WIP, of which I have posted examples from in the workshop, to an agent, is the synopsis. I just can't write a good cover letter to the level that will have me confident they will read the chapters provided. I have far more confidence in the work than the synopsis.
