1. Ettina
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    Ettina Active Member

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    teenage dating and sex

    Discussion in 'Research' started by Ettina, Feb 29, 2012.

    A 15 year old girl is dating an older guy and thinks it's true love. How long would be reasonable to have them date before they have sex? I'm asexual, so I have absolutely no clue.

    (By the way, this is a modern setting.)
     
  2. CheddarCheese
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    CheddarCheese Contributing Member

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    Hi Ettina,

    This depends almost entirely on the people involved. Although there probably is some sort of rough average, it's definitely not something you should restrict your characters to. If your character is outgoing, flirtatious, and confident, chances are she'll get involved much faster than if she was quiet, shy, and reserved. In addition, ethics, values, morals, background, and sometimes religion also effect the way your character will consider having sex with her significant other.

    And in reality, this is obvious. Some people take only a week, or even less, while others won't engage in sexual activities until after they are married.

    Good luck!
     
  3. minstrel
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    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Staff Supporter Contributor

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    A modern setting where? And how old is the older guy? What about socioeconomic status? There are many questions you haven't answered. Let us have a few more details, otherwise it's very hard to answer your question reasonably.
     
  4. Ettina
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    Ettina Active Member

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    Somewhere vaguely US or Canadaish - I never specify the actual location.

    Older guy looks 18 or so, but he's actually a vampire so he's a few hundred years old. (She doesn't know this.)

    She's middle class. He lives in a rough neighborhood, but he's richer than his surroundings would suggest.

    Personality wise, the girl is a clumsy, ditzy girl obsessed with romance, and the guy has borderline personality disorder. The girl's also a virgin, mostly because she's never felt serious about someone before.

    The protagonist is the girl's best friend. She thinks she has a psychotic disorder ever since early childhood, but in reality she's a natural predator of vampires. (She can hear vampires' thoughts and kill them with a magical touch.) Her friend is going to get killed when the vampire guy loses control of his bloodlust while having sex with her, and the protagonist will then realize that her 'hallucinations' are actually real.

    I just want sort of a minimum time I could have without the girl looking like a slut. Also, what kinds of stages are there that they'd go through before having sex?
     
  5. James Berkley
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    James Berkley Banned

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    Sort of base it of your own expectations and beliefs, everyone is different in that regard. My guess a few months.
     
  6. Nakhti
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    Nakhti Banned

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    A 15 year old girl having sex with an 18 year old (vampire or not) is actually illegal... shouldn't that be factored in somehow? I know many teens don't actually give a damn about the legal age of consent, and a vampire sure as hell wouldn't care, but your readers might find it quite significant. Publishers might also be wary of appearing to condone it, so it should be addressed in your story somehow. Otherwise this could be construed as sexual abuse of a minor.

    I would say a young girl who is obssessed with romance and thinks she's in love would probably give in to pressure fairly quickly, IF he said all the right things. That's where it starts to resemble abuse though, because he would appear to be manipulating her inexperience and infatuation for his own sexual gratification.

    Tread carefully.
     
  7. Lightman
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    Lightman Active Member

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    Please stop writing Twilight.

    Not necessarily true. In Pennsylvania, for example, that would be legal.
     
  8. live2write
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    live2write Contributing Member

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    What I do not understand in this is the sexual tension between the two characters.
    A 18 year old vampire (who is actually older) and a girl who is coming of age 15. I think what should be done is there should be more information about the vampire. Does he have a heart and a love for her or is he just out hunting and luring the girl into his trap.

    The young 15 year old on the other hand, she is like any teenage girl her age today. They are curious, innocent and are exploring things for the first time from first dates, to boys and even taking it a step further. I am not suggesting she should be naive but when the love bug kicks in the warning signs of trouble are in the back of the mind.

    As for the vampire. At his age since he is older than 18 but suggested to be 18. He has experience and to him it is a walk in the park on treating the girl like she is special.

    There are two directions you can go by this:

    1. The girl falls in love and wants to be closer with the older guy. She is willing to take risks and does not consider the warning signs.

    2. The girl falls in love but wants to take things slow and steady. The guy on the other hand assures her that everything will be okay with him and he lures her in with care until she gives in.
     
  9. Nakhti
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    Nakhti Banned

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    Oh, I'm sure there are certain places where it is legal. Albania, for instance. But in most US states and in the UK, i.e. the two biggest markets for English publications, it would be statutory rape. I think you kinda missed the point though. Any issue around underage sexual activity is a bit risky for a publisher, and they will want to ensure it is handled sensitively. Saying 'Oh, but it's legal in [insert obscure market here] is not really a helpful comment.

    EDIT: Just looked it up, and Pensylvania's age of consent is 16, therefore it would NOT be legal there. In Iowa, Indiana, Colorado and Arkansas there are instances where 14 or 15 year old can legally have sex. Not sure what those circumstances are, or whether it is a regional thing, but as it's not really the point I'm not looking any further into it
     
  10. James Berkley
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    James Berkley Banned

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    Probably Romeo and Juliet laws.
    Or perhaps that graduated thing. NYS has/had that, ( if I recall the NYPD exam correctly) hence 18 and 21 and some other year have some significance as to what is statutory and is not. I think 18 and 15 is legally kosher, but I don’t remember. Well beyond 17 is fair game for life. :)

    Not that horrny kids care. So sense we are rehashing twilitte just remember the younger girls are easier to trick.
     
  11. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Folks, the exact age laws aren't the issue. Readers, and people who have influence over the availability of novels, will react strongly to certain age pairings. Any hint of sexual exploitation can severely damage not only the availabilty of that book, but also anything the writer proiduces thereafter.

    A two hundred year old vampire, even if he looks sixteen, can be seen as exploiting any love interest under the typical age of consent. The vampire genre may view such relationships as more acceptable than some others, but you are still on shaky ground. Tread carefully indeed!
     
  12. Nakhti
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    Nakhti Banned

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    THANK YOU! Exactly the point I was making, although it got somewhat derailed by the legality issue.

    I write historical fiction set in cultures where girls would be married at 13 or 14, and often to much older men in their 20s, 30s, even 40s. The reactions I get to this are sometimes very strong indeed, despite the fact that they are based on modern sensibilities that would be anachronistic in the world of my novels. In order to avoid this issue I made one female character 16 - then I had to come up with a backstory for why she was such an old maid because she should have been married long before then!
     
  13. Tesoro
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    Tesoro Contributing Member Contributor

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    is it just me laughing at the thought of an 18-year-old being refered to as an "older guy"? That choice of words makes me think of like a thirty-year-old or something, at least considering her age. I know he is older than her, but with that little difference I don't think even she would refer to someone three years older like an "older guy", or would she?
     
  14. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    It can be all the difference. Someone who lives independently in the world at large vs someone who has only lived in the shelter of the parents' home. There is a very real imbalance of experience and power there. The exploitive nature of the relationship arises from such an imbalance.

    It's not a laughing matter at all.
     
  15. Islander
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    Islander Contributing Member Contributor

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    If the girl was 15, and the guy 17 and a half, would that be a problem?
     
  16. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    It will be to some people. Do you REALLY want to split hairs?

    In most states in the USA, doing it instead of writing about it can get you prison time and a permanent status as a sex offender.
     
  17. Tesoro
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    Tesoro Contributing Member Contributor

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    Ok, now I lost you guys. What are you talking about?
     
  18. Daniel_Allan
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    Daniel_Allan Member

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    Yeah. Vampires can do whatever they want in Pennsylvania.
    They even get free pie.

    Seriously, stop to 'paranormal romance'. Steph Myer is a bad writer telling a crap tail about a weak, pathetic girl. When did banging a Vampire become exciting?

    Stories of tension and love are about emotion and experience. Adding the supernatural doesn't make it 'cool'. It makes it not-believable.

    As a writer, explore all you want, but don't write about things you know NOTHING of. (i don't scream in text... only emphasis). It's like The 3rd book in the Eragon/Inheritance series. This young, white, home-schooled kid tried to write about sexual tension and racism. A virgin shouldn't write about sex (without serious research; ask the questions!) and he definately should be writing about how a young black girl feels among white, male company. Completely missed it.

    Either write about love and get it right without the 'need' for gimmicks, or just let your story fade.

    PS: It could work with the supernatural elements (although done to death), but you need to have a solid enough story to stand without the added bells and whistles.

    Vampire or not, most 15 years olds these days would do him on the first night. It's more about the character. With todays setting and people, though, I don't think she'll be natural if she's too cautious and responsible.
     
  19. Acanthophis
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    Acanthophis ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°) Contributor

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    If you're writing purely for money I'd suggest (ONLY a suggestion) sticking with conformity because most people are comfortable with that. If your story isn't being produced just to provide a roof over your head, I say screw conformity and write whatever you want!

    Society doesn't like it when people try to do things differently, don't let anyone else tell you what you can and cannot do just because a few people don't like it. People aren't going to like everything you write anyway (don't take that the wrong way), so who cares if you do things a bit unorthodox?
     
  20. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Money isn't the only reason for considering the consequences of your writing. You also may be concerned abou the behavior your writing may advocate, intentionally or otherwise.

    Free speech requires taking responsibility for the results of your expression.
     
  21. Nakhti
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    Nakhti Banned

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    By 'older guy' we don't mean middle aged, just older than her, and in the teenage world, 3 years is a HUGE difference - just think of the difference between a 13 year old and a 16 year old. You'd find THAT a bit icky I hope - so what's the difference two years on? A little less, but not much. 2 years after that? a 17 and a 20 year old - getting more acceptable. 2 years after that? a 19 and a 23 year old is pretty normal actually.

    That's why at 29 I didn't think it weird that my partner was 49. If I was 19 and he was 39, that would have been a bit strange. And if I was 15 and he was 35???

    You get the idea. It's all about relativity.
     
  22. James Berkley
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    James Berkley Banned

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    The creepy equation, youngest you can date without being a creep.
    (Age/2) + 7
     
  23. Newfable
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    Newfable Senior Member

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    I think the big question here is why is there the necessity of an older man (however you'd like to call it) being with a younger girl? Is it really necessary to the plot? Are certain themes or ideas being explored through this kind of relationship that can't be explored through any other kind of relationship, normal or otherwise?

    I agree. Why is there a vampire in this at all? Is it necessary? Or, a better question, is it improving your story at all? A gothic tale doesn't need a vampire in it, but it can certainly have one if it's going to make the story better.
     
  24. James Berkley
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    James Berkley Banned

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    why not have the female be the vampire?
    you never read or hear of those
     
  25. Ettina
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    Ettina Active Member

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    The protagonist is a vampire slayer who gets started after her best friend is killed by a vampire. So, yes, he has to be a vampire. Regarding him being older, it's because if he passes for 18 then they won't be wondering why he lives alone. In reality, he's about 100 years old - really young for a vampire.

    His personality is basically a darker version of Edward from Twilight. He thinks of himself as the tortured good-guy vampire archetype, and wants to atone for his wrongdoings. But he's got emotional issues (he was abused as a kid before being turned) which makes him clingy, obsessive, moody, and potentially violent. Basically, a spousal abuser type. The fact that he's a vampire means if he loses his temper he's likely to forget his own strength, or else succumb to the urge to bite.

    For some background, vampires in my story are pretty much in between the 'evil monster vampires' and the 'friendly vampires' in behavior. Most don't feel bad about killing to survive, but they don't cause unnecessary mayhem and they're quite devoted to other vampires. As they get older (above 150-200 usually), human lifespans seem very short to them, and most vampires, if they befriend a human, will see them kind of more like a beloved pet. If they become more than that, the vampire turns them. (Incidentally, psychologically healthy older vampires don't have romantic interest in humans, because most humans seem really young to them. Instead the relationships that motivate them to turn someone are usually feeling like a parent to the human. In the rare cases that vampires turn a romantic interest, it feels like parent-child incest to the younger vampire.) Most vampires think this guy is messed up, and rightfully so.

    I like vampire stories, but there are certain common tropes that bug me, so I like to deconstruct them. Anyway, this is irrelevant. I have a specific question that no one has given me a decent answer to. I need to know what's the minimum length of time this could take without the girl coming across as a slut.
     

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