1. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    the abc’s of trickle-down consequences

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by mammamaia, Jan 4, 2009.

    [this was written as poetry, but is more relevant in the lounge... i'm so mad, it's a darn good thing i'm not nook-endowed and am an anti-war/violence activist... if i had been able to center this, you'd see it as a goblet--or a funerary urn!]

    the abc’s of trickle-down consequences

    “g” will alway comes before “h”…
    as in ‘genocide’ and ‘Hamas’…
    and if the Israelis hadn’t been
    doing everything they could
    for well over half a century,
    to cruelly commit the first
    against whatever was left
    of lost-Palestine’s people
    after stealing their land
    and imprisoning them
    in deadliest poverty,
    as occupying Jews
    luxuriated in the
    Arabs’ usurped,
    old homeland,
    the second
    wouldn’t
    exist!

    why
    do most
    skip the ‘g’
    see only the ‘h’?
    what a shame it is
    that those Palestinians
    are taking so damn long
    to die off, huh? “L’chaim!”​
     
  2. garmar69
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    garmar69 Contributing Member Contributor

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    How about that maia? i'll delete if you don't approve. I may have misunderstood why you couldn't center it. So please don't be mad if I overstepped.
     
  3. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    t'riffic, gar!... thanks... guess i was too mad and teary to see how easy it was to do... you're a dear... hugs, m
     
  4. garmar69
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    garmar69 Contributing Member Contributor

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    It looked so cool when I centered it... I just couldn't resist!

    Glad you likes! :)
     
  5. garmar69
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    garmar69 Contributing Member Contributor

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    I guess the forum ghost decided it wanted me to make my 1000th post for me. :p
     
  6. Heather Louise
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    Heather Louise Contributing Member Contributor

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    Sorry, I don't understand the poem. Lmao .... me being simple first thing on a morning and that, but I don't get what it is saying. :(
     
  7. Cheeno
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    Cheeno Contributing Member

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    Does it for me. I'm disgusted with what's happening in Gaza.
     
  8. apathykills
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    apathykills Contributing Member

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    I can say a lot of things about this post, but it all sums down to one sentence: reading this made me very angry.

    It makes me very angry that you really do believe everything you wrote. Knowing that you actually believe in what you say and don't just spout it out as propaganda makes all of what you said even worse.

    The fact that out of all the people that read this no one seemed to have felt the need to call you on the complete misrepresentation of the facts you posted makes me angry.

    It makes me angry that in this world there are so many extremists, right winged or left winged, coloring everything black and white so that they won't have to deal with anything complex or meaningful.

    But these are all manageable, tiny little embers of anger that i can deal with.

    What made me furious, so much so that i had to take a break and drink some water, was the fact you said my relatives, my friends and my country-man committed genocide.

    All of my grandparents lost family in the holocaust, some of them lost their entire family, and I know what a holocaust is. They all came to this country once it was founded and i know how they saw it, and what it meant to them.

    My dad was a medic during most of Israel's wars, i won't start talking about the things he'd seen or how it affected him, but i can tell you that he was a soldier in the idf, Israel's defensive force, and that i am to.

    I was in a war, it wasn't a big war. I stood on the front line, but I didn’t play a combative role. I didn't shot anybody, but i was in a war.

    My little brother will probably be in a war to and i hate thinking about it.

    So which one of us are you accusing of genocide?

    My grandfather that came to a country sanctioned by the u.n, only to find himself attacked on all sides by the faction that got the lion share of the land? an attack that was unprovoked unjust and slanted so hard in favor of the Arabs it's a miracle a true second holocaust didn't happen on the very birth of my country?

    My dad that like my grandfather fought wars of self preservation for a country he was born in? Wars he did not ask for or want to partake in?

    Me? I'm just trying to protect my home, and the homes of my country man, from a barrage of artillery fire, fighting for safety more then anything else.

    So by who was this genocide committed and when?

    When was a genocide committed on the Palestinian people? As we freely provide them electricity, water, food, money and fair warning. Is this genocide?

    We walk away from gaza giving them free reign hoping never to return, and our reward is relentless missile attacks. Is this genocide?

    We are even now delivering tons of humanitarian aid, hoping to relive the pain we inflict on the Palestinian people as we defend ourselves from the terrorists so many of them are growing up to be. Is this genocide?

    The idf is one of the most morale armies in the world, formed from man and women that understand the true meaning of the word genocide and will never commit it.
     
  9. Banzai
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    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

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    Actually, I have every sympathy with Israel. they are constantly being set upon by surrounding nations, and as soon as they try to defend themselves, everyone jumps on them and starts attacking them for genocide, or whatever. Fair enough, violence isn't the best solution, but you forget that Iran, Syria, etc have vowed to anihilate Israel, and Hamas have been firing missiles at Israeli territory and hiding behind civilians. I think it's very short sighted to place the entire blame on Israel like this.
     
  10. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    i'm glad i've got some thinking about this, even if they can't see the historical perspective of how israel got to be a country, by evicting those who were there when they arrived...

    let's not be nasty to each other over this, though, please... that's why so many innocent people are being killed over there, isn't it?... if at least the few of us here can respect each other's views and agree to disagree in a friendly manner, there may be some hope for humanity, after all...

    however, being a realist and a lifelong [which for me is a looong time!] student of history and mankind's part in it, i'm afraid i'm expecting this thread to be locked, after one or more of the less peacefully inclined among us ignite that bit of tinder i posted...

    Shalom/Salaam 'Alaykum, love and hugs to all, maia
     
  11. Ferret
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    Ferret Contributing Member

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    The parts of your soul you refuse to recognize.
    I'm more inclined Israel. I have friends that used to live in Gaza, but now find themselves dodging rockets on the way to school.
    The fact that Israel "stole" their land is moot at best. We don't shoot Rockets over theft.
     
  12. Ives
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    Ives Member

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    Having been to both Palestine and Israel, my sympathy lies with the Palestinian population.
    No one snap my neck off, Israeli casualties are, of course just as important.
    The Holocaust; stop reminding us, because WE KNOW AND WE REMEMBER.
    It has come to the point where, if someone accuses Israel of murder, killing, uncalled for actions of any sort, someone over there stands up and cries, "We were victims of the Holocaust, Okay?"
    Once again, do not get me wrong. I feel with the Jewish population. The Holocaust was a terrible thing.
    But having visited Palestine, I notice similarities between what is happening there, and what has happened in the past.
    No, there are no concentration camps, where Palestinian citizens are being exterminated. But my cousins are forced to walk around with some special card of identification that I am unfamiliar with, showing them to be Palestinian citizens when an Israeli tank approaches them.
    Ring any bells?
    I have seen drawings on that humongous wall that Israel had built, barricading the Palestinian people, for example, a swastika = the star of David.
    I have been to my aunt's house, where bullet holes are all over the place, having broken their computer and cabinets.
    I do not want to write too large of a post here, I will not even elaborate on an Israeli raid on my aunt's house, taking my cousins away fro over a week, forcing them to urinate all over themselves in the freezing cold, wearing only their pj's.
    So...yes, my sympathy lies with the Palestinian people, having seen the real deal.
     
  13. Rei
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    Rei Contributing Member Contributor

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    Check farther back with your histroy, Maia, not just fifty or sixty years. Do you have any idea how many times Isreal has changed hands, or how often Jews have been evicted from their homes all over the world? How many people have been killed because of suicide bombers in Isreal? Just like with any war, both sides are victims here. As long as people are oozing nothing but hate for one side of this war, it will never end.
     
  14. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    FAIR WARNING - please read

    As with every thread dealing with controversial subjects, this one will be closely watched. As long as everyone remains respectful toward everyone else's beliefs, the thread may continue.

    FAIR WARNING! In the past, we have simply closed the thread when it gets too heated. This time, whoever takes it to the point that requires it to be closed will also be subject to an infraction.

    We have had a very poor track record with political threads in the past, and this is why we will follow a zero-tolerance policy on this one.

    So please keep the tone respectful at all times.
     
  15. Ferret
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    Ferret Contributing Member

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    The parts of your soul you refuse to recognize.
    I dunno. I remember getting into swearing matches with Sapphire back in the day...
     
  16. NaCl
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    NaCl Contributing Member Contributor

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    This conflict has nothing to do with displacement from one's homeland...it's all about religious hatred that goes back a thousand years. Hammas is not simply asking for return to Palestine. They are advocating the removal (by death, if need be) of all Jews from Isreal. Ironically, the present day extreme poverty they complain about is self-imposed. When they engaged in wholesale murder of innocent Jewish civilians by suicide bombings in crowded markets and other places of population density, Isreal closed the borders, ending the Palestinian jobs within Isreal's economy.

    Instead of spending time and money on rockets to fire at Israel, why doesn't Hammas build an economy for its people? The answer is pretty obvious. Poverty fuels hatred...hatred that Hammas needs to continue the war on Israel. Make no mistake, this is a religious war and religion is at the core of the hatred.
     
  17. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    why assume i haven't, rei?... see proof of that in this piece i wrote years ago, that goes back to as far as one can, according to those who believe in the bible [one of which i am not]:

    http://saysmom.com/maia/content.asp?Writing=288

    but i agree it will never end... nor will other religion-based conflicts the world over... sure, there may be peace of sorts in ireland now, but even so, catholics there still hate protestants and vice versa... and tamils will go on killing tigers and v/v... and so on...

    the only possible cure is the total eradication of the inherently inhumane human race...
     
  18. Banzai
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    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

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    Hallelujah! Someone else has realised that this is the only possible solution! I've been saying this for years...
     
  19. madhoca
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    madhoca Contributing Member Contributor

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    Since this isn't an option, a kind of pointless point to make, don't you think?
     
  20. Banzai
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    Banzai One-time Mod, but on the road to recovery Contributor

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    Since this forum is never gonna come up with the solution to the problem, it could be argued that this whole debate is pointless.
     
  21. ManicParroT
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    ManicParroT Contributing Member

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    What makes you say that? If this forum existed for people to solve the world's problems, yeah. On the other hand, if it exists for people to engage in discussions - if discourse is an end in itself - then the debate is the point.
     
  22. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    As long as it remains respectful. We don't encourage debate for its own sake. The only outcome of that is for members to entrench and fortify, and it creates uncalled for emnity.

    This is a site for members to work together on improving their writing. Social interaction is encouraged to the point that it strengthens a sense of community and mutual appreciation. When it becomes divisive, we shut it down.

    There are plenty of sites where verbal gladiators can exchange blows and blow off some steam, but that is not what this site is about.
     
  23. Rei
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    Rei Contributing Member Contributor

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    Of course we can't fix anything by talking here. But that's the whole point: talk. We're talking, which is what should be happening in the first place, and is exactly what is not happening where it should. The more people can communicate respectfully, the closer we get to stopping all of this. It has to start somewhere.
     
  24. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    the sad part is that the militant leaders of the warring parties don't want to talk to each other... which leaves innocent civilians taking the hits...
     

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