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  1. T.Trian
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    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Staff Supporter Contributor

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    The Assault on Cytherea and Political BS

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by T.Trian, Feb 25, 2015.

    First, a trigger warning: this is a thread regarding the sexual assault on the adult film star, Cytherea, so if you don't want to read about such violence, don't.

    Moving on:
    On January 19th, 2015, at around 07:30 on Martin Luther King Day, a group of five teenagers invaded the home of adult film star, Cytherea, where she lives with her husband and 6 & 7yo sons. The teenagers robbed the family at gun point, beat up her husband, and then three of them (Qumaire Rainey, 18; Edward London, 17; and Casey Franks, 16, the two other 17yos have also been caught, but their names have not been released) raped Cytherea four times, choking her at the same time while she begged them to stop, again at gun point, while her husband and sons where there.

    The following day, the five teenagers broke into another home, attempting to do the same thing all over again. Thing was, the woman whose house they broke into, had a gun, so while the armed men still ransacked her home and took her car, they couldn't rape her, and a few weeks later, the Metro police caught the teenagers who are now waiting for their trial (all three rapists will be tried as adults).
    The outcome is ironic considering e.g. Libby Nelson wrote for Vox that female students shouldn't be allowed to carry firearms because, according to her, it "devalues sexual assault."
    Anyway, it turned out these fuckers didn't even know it was Cytherea's house: they just literally kicked in the door of a random house, and went for it. All the suspects have criminal histories and knew one another from detention.

    In my book, what they did to Cytherea and her family was fucking brutal, worthy of a life sentence (if I got to pick the sentence). But that's beside the point. Here's what, in addition to the actual incident, brings my piss to a boil:

    Some media outlets have reported the rape, but the coverage has been fairly minimal in comparison to e.g. the Rolling Stone/University of Virginia rape claims.
    Feminist bloggers, whom I (as a fellow feminist) expected to jump on the case, spread the word, and support Cytherea, have ignored the incident entirely. Another porn star, Mercedes Carrera, who doesn't even know Cytherea personally, started a charity for her to raise money for the family in their time of need since, understandably, Cytherea can't do her job i.e. porn after the assault, meaning she can't earn her keep at the moment, hence the charity (not that the incident, in and of itself, wasn't deserving enough).

    Now, Carrera has tried spreading the message while also contacting people like Anita Sarkeesian (one of the most prominent and famous feminists today), but so far the response hasn't been positive or negative. The response has been perfect radio silence. According to Carrera, Sarkeesian never even responded to her.

    I get that Cytherea is a porn star, I get that Carrera is a porn star, that she is also pro-GamerGate (while Sarkeesian and the feminist media are largely very anti-GamerGate), but do we have to make a political issue out of this too? This isn't about fucking politics, it's about the suffering of a real family. This is about a real woman who survived real rape, a real assault, and whose family survived the assault. This is about helping them, especially since sex workers don't always get equal treatment in society (e.g. Carrera has tried raising charities for many good causes, but several organizations have refused her simply because she's a porn star and here, too, we see that Cytherea's case doesn't get as much media coverage as one would expect).

    I don't have money, so I can't donate to the charity, but if nothing else, I can do my part in raising awareness of the situation when so many prominent media outlets and media personalities are staying silent and ignoring this family's suffering.
    It's the same thing with the Rotherham case (where several underage girls were groomed and repeatedly raped by organized gangs), how so many media outlets and media personalities, including most famous feminists, completely ignore the situation, yet claim to give a damn about women's suffering, sexual violence, and rape culture. Where's the outrage?
    Oh, but we have a self-proclaimed asshole like Arthur Chu speaking out against the charity for Cytherea, saying people shouldn't support it because he's anti-GamerGate, and Carrera is pro-GamerGate (even though Carrera didn't tag any of her Tweets regarding the charity with #GamerGate or #NotYourShield). You know what? To Hell with GamerGate, to Hell with political grand-standing, and show some fucking compassion for a suffering fellow human.

    Anyway, sorry about the ranty tone, but the situation is so absurd, people making a big deal about harassment, stare rape, sexism in video games, manspreading etc, but when we have a case of real violence against a real woman... nothing. Where's Rolling Stone now? I don't know, but what I do know is that they aren't writing an article about Cytherea.

    Thoughts?
     
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  2. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    I'll get to the rest in a bit but you do know that claim about Libby Nelson is from Alex Jones (not sure who started it but it looks like it was Jones). That should be your first clue. You might want to take Jone's "Prison Planet" rants with a grain of salt.

    Here's the actual comment and as you can see it's been taken completely out of context and spread around the pro-gun blogosphere to discredit Nelson.
    It says nothing about 'women carrying guns devalues rape'. It's says that guns won't solve the problem of date rape. I guess the sentence was too complex for some people to comprehend.
     
  3. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    OK, seriously, TT, Alex Jones and Infowars is a nutjob with a completely wacko web page and podcast. He's the same level of crazy as Glenn Beck.

    So I looked for the actual news report by going to the Las Vegas News sites.
    2 more teens arrested for home invasion, sex assault

    Yes, horrid crime; covered in the local news; not much national attention.

    I take it then some friends and sympathizers started a social media campaign including a gripe about the lack of national news coverage. I don't see anything in the Vegas news reports that suggests the victim was ignored because of her occupation.

    How many rapes, home invasion robberies and home invasion rapes don't make the national news? I'm going to guess a whole lot. And which crimes the news media makes a big deal of involve clear biases. Missing white girls get more attention than missing brown girls. High profile rapes like those of women accusing jocks on campuses of gang rapes make headlines. It sucks.

    But the rest of your story seems to be heavily enhanced with a lot of 'why aren't these feminist anti-gun liberals up in arms about this rape' that could be said about thousands of cases.

    As for the Gamergate contribution, I think I'll leave that part to @Jack Asher if he sees this thread and cares to comment. I know about it and empathize with the woman whose reputation was smeared. But chasing claims by and opinions of Alex Jones on Inforwars is not something I choose to waste time doing. Sorry.
     
  4. 123456789
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    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    T, did you know the American Revolution was catalyzed by just a few people? Rich upperclassmen men. My basic opinion on history is that social changes are often not made for the masses but for a select few. Usually these people are educated and have the means to provoke change . That's what politics is. It's funny because I just posted a thread about an Oscar winners feminist acceptance speech, that, to me, reeked of double standards , and one of the reasons I posted it, was because I had actually just read about the Cytherea case. It's too suspicious, that we are asked to care about upper class college girls(even if the report is false) but of course nobody cares about a "trashy" porn star.
     
  5. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Or 99% of the human species unless the home invasion was in your neighborhood and then you worry they could hit your house.

    I'd like to see the evidence that ties this woman's occupation to the apathy.
     
  6. T.Trian
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    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Thanks for the correction. Doesn't change my opinion, though; I still think her comment is bs because believe me, guys tend to think twice before trying to antagonize much less force an armed woman, but as there aren't many ways to make a concrete case in one direction or another, it's no more than my personal opinion.


    If you're not interested in the topic, you don't have to waste your time with the discussion although are of course welcome to do so.

    Now, first, I have no idea who Alex Jones is, and I didn't catch this off Info Wars, I don't even know the website, so I have no bias in that direction.

    Second, I'd really rather not make this about gg: there's nothing I can say to convince @Jack Asher and vice versa since we both believe that we know the truth of the matter and that the other is believing in unverified nonsense, and we've been through that dance already ad nauseum, but of course, if he or anyone else has something to say about the subject, they can start a new thread about gg specifically. This thread is about the rape case and the complete lack of coverage in certain media outlets that have covered even unverified rape cases. How does that make any sense besides from a political standpoint? And my point is, politics shouldn't get in the way of basic common decency. I know it does, but I'd say those who let it, don’t deserve much respect.

    And yeah, it sucks all rape cases don't get equal coverage, but that's the point of this thread, to spread awareness if nothing else. Who knows, maybe someone will even donate a dollar or a few. If you know of other rape cases of similar type (verified) that get ignored by all but the local media, you're welcome to share info about them. Or we can share info about other such tragedies that have been ignored because of political bias, for instance.

    I also don't think it's necessary to turn the thread into a gun discussion, but if there's more to discuss about the gun element, we can take that discussion to one of the forum's several gun threads.

    Do you think we shouldn't spread awareness or why the... negative attitude or some such? Was it the mention of guns and gg? Or that I dared criticize Sarkeesian and other such "feminists"? Or am I completely off the mark?
     
  7. 123456789
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    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    Not true. There were two big "rape" cases being advertised all over my FB for a while. Both were onewhite, college girls. One is this "couch girl,". The other one, which I read, involved a girl being gang raped at a frat party, was very disturbing, too disturbing to even seem real. It turns out both are now largely considered to be fake reports. But before they were questionable, they were making waves. If you want I can find the cases.
     
  8. GingerCoffee
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    The point was, not all rapes are physically forced. Some rapists use drugs.
    Alcohol-Related Sexual Assault: A Common Problem
    among College Students*
    It basically says we need better data but it's a no brainer that alcohol is involved in a lot of sexual assault. They include the perp as more likely to be sexually aggressive when drunk. So are you suggesting a drunk woman shoot a drunk man who gets pushy with sex? How exactly is that going to go down?

    You brought the GamerGate up.

    If you didn't get this story from InfoWars or PrisonPlanet, I'd bet the site you got it from did.

    I think people should verify claims before repeating them. Like I said, this is circulating around the right wing, pro-gun, anti-feminist web sites. That's fine but when you see stories like this, they need to be verified.

    So far, the anti-gun feminist was seriously misquoted. And all we know for sure is this home invasion rape didn't get national coverage.

    Where's the evidence her occupation had anything to do with the lack of national coverage? I think it just hasn't come to Rachel Maddow's attention yet. ;)

    I didn't see any mention of her occupation in the news links I found. And it was Vegas, I'm guessing they don't look down on porn stars, heck, prostitution is legal just outside the city limits.

    If you search for 'woman raped in Vegas home invasion' instead of 'porn star raped in vegas home invasion' you get normal news coverage interspersed with the pro-gun blogosphere. If you search for the latter, all you get are the pro-gun ranters.

    I'm not trying to argue for or against the pro-gun groups. It's just that they've latched on to this horrible rape and made it a cause celeb for guns and racism.

    Yes, racism, here's another 'black on white crime the news media is ignoring'. That liberal media complaint was all the rage after the 'white cop kills black kid/teen/man' stories that have been prominent here lately.

    It's no wonder they are making this case their cause celeb.

    It's a simple question, where is the evidence the victim's occupation is related to the lack of national news coverage?
     
  9. GingerCoffee
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    I'm not sure what you think I said because this is a non sequitur to my post. What I said was, the national news media makes a big deal of certain crimes and ignores the other 99%.
     
  10. 123456789
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    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    You're right. Sorry. I wonder why this one is not receiving as much circulation as other cases. Is that a fair question to ask?
     
  11. GingerCoffee
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    The mainstream news media's selective coverage of crime, by all means, is an issue.

    Blaming feminists and an anti-gun columnist for not marching in the streets about this crime is quite another.
     
  12. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    The reason the college rape cases are getting national attention is because the collegiate authority is not responding to safety concerns, blaming the victim, or imposing very light sentences on offenders.

    Are the alleged attackers (and don't think no one noticed that you have already decided that they did it), been sheltered from the consequences of their actions? Have they been given light sentences, or their crimes failed to be investigated because they have monetary value to a system?

    Because if not you can't call "false equivalence" because the situations are entirely different. If Cytherea was forced to go to work every day with her attacker, because the porn industry itself saw no reason to punish him, that would be the same thing.

    But it looks like the alleged offenders have been arrested and will be tried by the rule of law. This is not systemic abuse and neglect for the rights of a victim. It's a horrific crime, and I hope the perpetrators face justice. But it's not the same as being raped on camera, and then told that your rapist will be neither punished nor kept away from you.
     
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  13. T.Trian
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    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Staff Supporter Contributor

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    That depends entirely on the scenario. My point is that if the woman is armed, e.g. carries a pocket pistol in an IWB holster on her belt, under her shirt, the gun is on her person, which means if she starts to smell a rat, she can leave, and the guy can't stop her.
    Likewise, he'd have a harder time pressuring her verbally into having sex with him if he knew all he could do was talk when getting physical might turn out badly for him.

    Likewise, that means that she'll be in possession of the gun until she takes off her pants. I'd say that doesn't eliminate the possibility of date rape, but it does make the rapist asshole's job a lot more difficult, and a lot more dangerous, and the more rapists are in danger, the better.

    Point being, there is no such thing as 100% safety. Anyone who claims there is, is either lying or so out of touch with reality, they might as well be an idiot. The idea is to minimize the risks and to empower women by increasing their ability to control their lives and decide themselves what they do and with whom.

    People who I see as real feminists, women like Camille Paglia, Wendy McElroy etc. promote this kind of empowerment, things like being vigilant when out and about, watching your drink, not drinking a drink if you forgot it on the table while visiting the bathroom etc, i.e. stuff that men are expected to do by default. To me, that's not being a rape apologist (since some people claim it is), but sensitive to the realities we live with when we're out there in the concrete jungle.

    I know the "teach men not to rape" -idea is attractive, but the reason I doubt its applicability in the real world is because those men who would listen, already know rape is wrong and don't do it, whereas those who wouldn't listen, i.e. the rapists, simply don't care that what they do is wrong.
    If teaching people not to do thing x worked, we could teach people not to murder, rob, steal, lie, drive while under the influence etc. As you can probably see by the murder and crime stats, that's not the case.

    So I'd say if the woman has a gun and knows how to use it, she has an "out" longer than without the gun. She shouldn't shoot until she feels her health/life is in danger, so if the guy gets verbally pushy, she can leave. If he gets physically pushy or physically tries to stop her from leaving, that's the time to shoot. Of course, "pushy," is a very relative term, but the way I see being physically pushy as e.g. grabbing her when she tries to walk away, blocking the exit to prevent her from leaving, and more violent things. So no, I'm not suggesting women shoot a guy for inquiring whether she'd like to have sex.


    I mentioned gg only because that was the reason why e.g. Arthur Chu is against the charity.

    I got the story first from YouTube when Cytherea's own video (on her own channel), where she discusses what happened, popped up on my suggested viewing list, and from there I saw Carrera's video where she discussed the event and the charity, and after that I read through all the news articles I could find with a quick googling (4-5, with 2-3 being identical, the most details I got from, surprisingly enough, pornwikileaks or whatever it's called) without even looking at which websites they were on (I usually do that since often websites can be biased in one direction or another, so reading as many versions of an event usually gives a broader picture of the truth that usually lands somewhere in the middle of the extremes).


    At this point I haven't found anything that I'd count as evidence. It's all about how it seems, how it looks, and considering there are still plenty of companies out there who actually refuse donations from people simply because they are porn stars, I wouldn't be shocked there would be people in the media as well who don't want to associate themselves with anything, well, "porn positive."

    The second reason it seems like it could be an issue is the simple fact that even when notified about the case, none of the prominent 4th wave feminists have let out a peep about it. Why is that? What possible reason do they have not to promote the charity? Or to discuss the issue on their blogs, Twitter feeds etc, or, at the very least, offer their support to the survivors and spread the word. Why wouldn't they? I'm honestly confused, so if you have any ideas of valid reasons, I'm all ears.

    I don't know who Maddows is, but I'll check her out as well if she's someone who would offer help to the survivors in such situations.


    I actually had no idea the pro-gun crowd was on this case. So far I haven't seen pro-gun articles covering this, but I'll check out what's around.


    I actually knew the perps were all black, but didn't mention it in the OP because I didn't think it was relevant in this case as they chose their target at random, i.e. it could've just as well been a black woman's house they entered.
     
  14. GingerCoffee
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    Those are good points. It's not just who the victim is, it's also other circumstances surrounding the incidents.
     
  15. GingerCoffee
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    Long-winded posts are hard to address so my apologies for the snipping.
    Is this thread about guns or media coverage? I have no desire to debate gun issues here.

    When it came to Elevatorgate, the pendulum of feminism among the complainers swung way too far to the side of blaming men for everything. I did not join that camp.

    But you want to swing the pendulum too far the other direction. We can't all be cowboys. We don't all feel comfortable carrying guns to protect us from assholes and it's not practical in many situations. There is a rape culture when you have 3+ separate incidents of high school boys raping an unconscious girl, videotaping it, spreading the images around and the community are on the side of the boys and surprised that is against the law.
    Steubenville High School Rape case
    Suicide of Rehtaeh Parsons
    Suicide of Audrie Pott

    Those incidents were outrageous and indicative of the rape culture while politely hitting on a woman on an elevator in a first class hotel is not.

    The reason I keep posting #NotAllMen in the other thread is because the rape culture does not involve all guys or all colleges or all towns. But those three cases were not totally out of the blue. Something is seriously wrong when rape victims get death threats from classmates for ruining the football team and the coach and community try to cover up the crime.

    I haven't seen any versions except the right wing blogosphere and the local news accounts. Goggle "Cytherea rape" and take a gander at the Web sites that pop up on page one. Not one of them is a credible source.

    Not in Las Vegas where this occurred. Vegas sells sex, it's expected.

    I don't know who the "4th wave feminists" are but my guess is they are not mainstream feminists. Are you saying said victim wanted more attention and was unhappy some feminists didn't pick up the torch and help the woman raise funds? Maybe "give me money" didn't come across well. Why on Earth would feminists be anti-porn star? That makes no sense.

    But it's in the circle you are traveling in. You bought the story, false statements and all, and went on a rant about it. When you say it was on your news feed, those are tailored to your cookies and Web surfing history.

    If it was a black woman's home, the right wing blogosphere would not have made a poster child out of the crime.

    Call me skeptical. ;) I can't see anything past the red flags at this point.
     
  16. BayView
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    Have you seen the stats on drinking and driving? There's been a significant decrease since we started having all the campaigns pointing out what a bad idea it is.

    And I think this is largely because we've changed attitudes. It used to be sort of funny, and pretty well accepted. Now, it's completely unacceptable in most social groups.

    Sexual assault? I'd say we're mid-shift. I mean, have you seen some of the old movies and TV shows? They're completely over the top. I think we've managed to get people at least starting to think about this, starting to recognize sexual assault when they see it (or do it) and I think that's an important step in the right direction. So, no, I disagree about there being no point in teaching men not to rape. I think you may be thinking of the "stranger danger" type of rape, rather than date rape, domestic rape, etc.

    Because it's just one of many sexual assaults that happen every day, and this victim is hardly a household name?

    Again, because there are countless thousands of women who are raped and could use financial compensation afterwards. What makes this one any different from the rest?

    Speaking personally? I believe that everyone is deserving of being protected by the law, absolutely. I'm sorry this happened to this woman. But when it comes to going above a sort of general concern and being moved to actually donate money? I look for something unique, and I don't see it here. The gamergate connection might make me even less likely to donate, since I don't usually feel extra empathy for people with views opposite my own, but it's not the deciding factor.

    I just don't see anything all that unique about this victim. It's terrible that this is a common crime, but it's the truth.
     
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  17. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    60 years ago gang raping a black woman wouldn't have even made the police bulletin, much less the news. The people reporting now are a part of the system that existed back then. Trying to pretend otherwise is disingenuous at best.
     
  18. KaTrian
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    Just a side question as I'd prefer not to expand this too far, but haven't a lot of colleges in the US taken action after this became a hot topic? I mean, things are better now, right? There're support groups nowadays, people's (women's and men's) reports are being taken more seriously, etc.? I'd like to imagine something positive has been achieved.

    As for the OP, high profile feminist bloggers like Anita Sarkeesian seem to focus on issues of media criticism and harassment. Honestly, I'm not sure if they're trying to seriously prove that media causes violent crime or if it's just about discussing and criticizing things that make some women feel uncomfortable. Maybe this case doesn't fit their agenda, or there're simply too many horrible rape cases out there for them to address every single one personally. Furthermore, this crime touched also Cytherea's family, so it's not a lone woman being targeted and gangraped by frat boys type of perfect case for activists to discuss. It's difficult for me to find proof that Cytherea's occupation is the reason for the lack of media coverage 'cause, for one, I'm not a media critic, and secondly, I'm not that invested in this case. Either way, I think the women who work in the American porn industry should address or continue addressing this issue if there's indeed one, and spread awareness.

    At this point, I wish Cytherea all the best and hopefully the US justice system dishes out appropriate punishments for the perps. At least Americans still have real prisons, not hotels like in Scandinavia and Finland.
     
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  19. 123456789
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    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    You just got to rub it in every chance you get, don't you? -_-
     
    Last edited: Feb 26, 2015
  20. KaTrian
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    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I'm sorry, I didn't realize I was on an Our-Prisons-Are-Too-Nice rampage! I'll promise to tone it down. :p
     
  21. 123456789
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    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    You also beat us in the PISA this year, again. Really beat us :S
     
  22. KaTrian
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    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Huh? I don't think they've run it yet, let alone released results?
     
  23. 123456789
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    Weird. I read a new article about it, but the results were from 2013.
     
  24. KaTrian
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    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Yeah, they do it every 3 years. The last one was in 2012, so there's gonna be a new test this spring. My guess is the results won't be that great this time around. :(
     
  25. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    No, not really. The media response has been sabotaged by a erroneous article in Rolling Stone. Just like the Walter Cronkite affair, the focus has turned to one yellow article, instead of the gigantic body of evidence collected in every other report. Some states are writing tougher laws, and there's the heartening story about a lacross player that was suspended from school immediately following a rape allegation (I can't find any links on that one due to the flood of Duke scandal results).

    But this is the exception. The norm is that the system is completely corrupt.
     
    GingerCoffee likes this.
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