1. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    The Order, a Magical Model

    Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by GuardianWynn, Nov 22, 2014.

    In my story or work in progress "The Order" I have designed I think a very detailed magical model. I wonder what others feedback is to it. :D I have already 4 alternate stories taking place in this universe. So I like thnking the model is nice to support different styles. I hope you enjoy the ideas of one wierd writer. Feedback and comments or questions are welomed and loved.

    The Order Magical Model
    Magical Model for the Universe that is the setting for my story The Order
    Magic is a type of energy that has been around since before the big bang. The energy is constantly flowing but its area of effect is so large and even that not many forms of technology are unable to detect it. Through evolution certain creatures developed a soul organ that in a sense that allows them to personally manipulate this energy. A magical born person will have a higher amount of energy than his environment. As such he will be visible on magical detecting technology or another magical born persons inner magical sense. As the organ is part of ones energy it is not tangible and cannot be harmed or removed to disable ones ability to use magic. Most organs are very fixed at birth and as such possible abilities are fixed from birth but most doesn't mean all, so some changing is possible usually through one of two rare events that I probably won't mention here. There are three basic schools of what magical energy can do.
    1. Psychic.
    Psychics are not a unique form of mind energy, they are a unique form of magical energy. The conscious mind is not purely a reaction of the brain. The soul or magical energy of life holds this aspect of people. Souls use the brain to communicate. Psychics work under the core concept of speaking to the magic or soul of another, not the brain. Since talking isn't as difficult to ignore, psychics that are not subtle can be much easier to block. Psychics telekinesis is explained in the same basic manner. They talk with the energy of or surrounding an item. A magical born person whether psychic or not is resistant to psychic mind attacks or a telekinesis attack to the insides because as the energy was sparked within themselves the control they have over it outranks a psychic. As such a completely non magically born person is much less resistant to a psychic.
    2. Magic, or Normal Magic
    The core concept is being able to manipulate magical energy. Differing styles or intensity may very greatly from person to person. Moving matter, increasing stats or launching fireballs all fit into this category. This is the most common category and as such has the highest flex of what can be done in it. There is a core difference between moving matter magically and psychically. Since psychics speak to the energy their control over different materials tend be equal. Magical movement almost never gives an equal cost to different materials. Which suffers a higher cost varies from person to person.
    3. The Warriors Sense
    The Warrior Sense is very similar and different to psychics. While Psychics can talk and listen to a soul, the Warrior Sense allows one to see and touch the soul. It may seem like the other two touch magic but there is a notable difference. Psychics and normal Magic both touch magic with magic. The soul is made of magic and a magical born person can mentally manipulate there soul. It is also notable to explain a difference about seeing energy. A normal magic user can concentrate and produce a visible ball of energy. This would give the easy assumption that magic can be visible to anyone but it skips a step. Normal magic isn't visible, the effect it is having on the world is, such as heat, to give an example. The Warriors sense allows the true touch and sight of the real magical energy.
    Classes, these three schools can be broken down into seven classes. Normal magic and its classes are the most common, Psychics are the second most common, making the Warrior Sense the rare one. It is possible to have all three schools to some effect but that would be highly unlikely. It is not possible to have all seven classes.
    Normal Magic
    1. Manipulator
    A Manipulator has the ability to mess or change the world around them. Generally moving material or changing material, such as creating fire or throwing fire would be manipulator style abilities. Manipulators come in all kinds of ways and the rules restriction of what they can do will vary from person to person. Rarely do manipulators find someone with the same limits as themselves. It is rare for normal magic user to not have some talent in manipulating. Strong manipulators are called Naturist or Enchanters. Naturist generally have one aspect of manipulating that is far superior than anything else they can do. Enchanters have the ability to create a magical effect that can continue outside of there presence or focus. (For those who saw my other Magical Model Question Thread Melissa is a Normal Magical Manipulator with a Naturist talent of plants that showcases itself in her Enchanting style bonds.)
    2. Stat Magic
    Stat Magic is the ability to use magical energy to quickly and temporarily enhance physical abilities such as strength, speed and durability. Range of effectiveness can very but no Normal Magic user is without this form of magic. General these effects are gained even if the magical born person is unaware of their magic.
    3. Bio Change Magic.
    Bio Change magic is when magical boast support a genetic change, the change could then exist in-spite of a future off spring not having the original magic boast. Example being a race I call the Onkyuo, they have incredible speed. They likely gained this by something like an Enchanting Style Stat Magic. As their bodies eventually became built to handle the speed regardless of if the individual had the original required magic for the talent. Making there speed now completely non magical in use. It still needed magic for them to achieve this change though. The change doesn't have to be non magical, the point is for there genetics to reflect a change indifferent to their souls magic chart. Quite Rare to happen suddenly but usually is passed down by genetics. Something I refer to as leaping is under this style of magic. Though leaping the most common version of this magic.
    Psychic
    1. Normal Psychic
    Described above, nothing that the school description didn't cover.
    2. Illusionist.
    An Illusionist is one that intermix psychic style with normal magic. As such the user must have both some form of psychic and some form of normal magic. Though simply having both is not enough to make you an illusionist, you also have to be able intermix them together. Intermixing psychic and normal magic doesn't require either to be very strong. It is quite possible for a psychic's talent to be so low that the person is unaware they have it. It would still allow a person access into the illusionist style. Illusions work by attempting to subvert control of the target by mixing or tainting the targets souls with there own magic.
    Warriors Sense (This one is a bit harder for me to focus on so sorry if it seems clumsy)
    1. Sight
    The Warriors sight allows one to see the soul or magic around them. The sight can allow one to identify people, track people, see their true motives(a true desire of someone such as murder intent cannot be hidden from this sight.) at its highest perk it can allow one to see into the future. To flexing degrees. A picture here isn't clear or perfect. Standard version is more perception of the immediate area and time. The strongest version of it can predict dramatic events of the cosmos, such as a star's death, or the death of something of equal importance. Again it wouldn't be a clear picture rather a person would be able to see this event through the tint of there magical sight, one would need to recognize that the flow of energy that they see is from the death of the star as example.
    2. Touch
    The Warrior's Touch first gives anyone with this style of magic the Chi Energy Ball, a fierce ad deadly attack that works by condensing energy at a higher concentration than normal focus would allow. Though reflection the higher focus of energy would likely be possible to use in alternate ways, such as shields, ext. The true strength to this form of energy manipulation is that it doesn't burn ones own energy. It uses the energy around you, but as such its power isn't consistent and can be exhausted if you remain in the same area for to long. At its highest ability it can allow one to open the wall between the real realm and the spiritual realm. While a physical entity can not enter that realm attempting to allows one to reach the space between them, and by traveling in there one can achieve something akin to teleporting.
     
  2. jaebird
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    jaebird Active Member

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    Cool. Am I correct in thinking you’re doing a series with this concept?

    I have a thing for biology (it was my major in college) so I’m curious as to how all the different ‘types’ of magic you’ve got here developed. It may not be important to the story, but it’s interesting just the same. I worked on a novel several years ago where magical abilities came through a dominate gene, and if you only got one of them from your parents instead of two, you had magic, but a much weaker version of it. Children who received both dominate genes were considered ‘pure’. The mixing of magic users and normal humans created a new ‘breed’, if you will, of magic.

    So, would a person who has magic not be able to manipulate, or do use any of their abilities on a non magical person or creature? Since a lot of what you described is like one magical ‘soul’ coming into contact with another. Just curious.

    I like your concept, and you seem to have done a lot of work figuring out how your world works. Good luck with your story!
     
  3. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    Yes, this will be the magical model that is used in all my stories in the universe I refer to as "The Order"
    Well, the idea on different types of magic is that a person developed a different basis for there control.
    So lets take a race I call the onkyuo as an example. The onkyuo have an increadible level of speed(they have other difference too but for this purpose lets just focus on speed). Well speed is just stat magic. So lets see how my universe would have created them. First they were likely non magical, then they became magical. Which is not gaining magic, magic was already there, it would have been a point where a human went from being unable to even realize it was there to being able to interact with it. Very much like how light existed before organizions were able to see. Once they had it, they likely all focuses on speed. As generations went by they got faster and faster based on there bodies being able to handle it. Eventually the speed became so ingrained in there dna that they bodies likely took mutations that made there bodies faster inspite of the magic they had. Sort of a "We can't build a bridge without access to both sides." The speed magic gave them allowed there bodies to handle changes to that effect. Which I think support a natural selection theory as they already valued speed, anyone born with a faster body did probably better than others. So eventually there bodies hit a point where even if a rare mutation accrued and a non magical born person was of there race, they would likely still hold on to there speed.

    Does that make sense?
    Though the others while eventually hitting a "biological change" others than stat magic others would likely still need to be magical born to use magic, though such a far down generation without it would be the equivelent of someone born without a pacreas, such a sudden mutation is unlikely. lol But the reason I say that is where you are on the magical model has little to do with your parents. See a person like Melissa, who has a naturist plant magic. If she had kids they kids are not likely to be naturist plant magic users. What genetics pass down is intensity of ability, not ability. So since Melissa is strong what ever her kids had would likely begin strong. The exception here is the biomagic. Because that is a magic that has moved to genetics and would be passed down to the next generation.

    So, might have not fully explain why on this one. The idea is your soul is your magic and your soul is different than your parents, not in just the fusion way either. So what your soul reflects is what your magic is. Does that make sense?

    Another biomagic example. (Fire warrior) ()<- means I need better name. A fire warrior has a feedback loop on there magic. As they use magic, there compacity builds. Making them increadible strong suddenly, but this effect only lasts as long as the fight last. After that they cool down. So they warm up and cool down. This is also kind of stat magic, but in a different way. The point is again, the way the universe made them was likely a rare user had something near this and as it was cultivated eventually it moved into genetics of the body and not just the soul. Inspite of this needing magic, this also probably has a genetic trigger(and likely a genetic place, though not sure where.) As such this power does get passed by genetics.

    Does that make sense?(Seriously I ask, you never know, you may uncover some flaw. lol)
    Well think of this universe having magic like this everywhere, like an ocean. No one doesn't have it. Magical born is the ability to manipulate it. So a non magical person would actually be at much greater danger of someone that can manipluate the magic in side them. Which would be a psychic, lol. Parelling this to other finction it isn't hard to imagine a non psychic being extra suspectible to a psychic right? Though in this case since I am calling psychic an form of energy use even non psychics who are magical born would be able to fend off a psychic to some degree.

    Thank you for the feedback, and yes I have taken much time on this. :D Have I answered your questions or inspired anymore?
     
  4. jaebird
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    jaebird Active Member

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    It makes sense, that the physical developments of a race would play a part in the magical developments, and vice versa. But they still need magic in order to use the ability, right?

    So a human couldn’t have this biomagic because it hasn’t been passed down for centuries like it has with your example race? (Otherwise, how would they get it?) And certain races have certain magical abilities fused with their own genetics? Or is it simply like a family lineage thing, where you can trace yours back for generations, where your friend can trace their own but it’s a completely different ability? I guess I'm just curious as to who can have what type of ability. Some of it is genetic, and some of it is not. And animals can have this too?

    So, if I understand this right, the ‘soul’ is like an extra sense, in that it detects magic, and you inherit that from your parents. And a non magical person has their own magic but can’t use it because they don’t have this sense? How did those who don’t have the biomagic gain the ability to manipulate things or energy?

    Sorry if you feel like I've just bombarded you with a bunch of questions :)
     
  5. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    In the case of the Onkyuo, no actually. Though I think that would be rare, as intensity is passed down. So the multi generations to achieve a race like effect here would likely mean they have a high intensity, so a non magical born there would be rare.

    Technically since I am calling leaping biomagic, it would be possible without generations actually. Leaping is something I didn't get into detail up there. So let me explain. Leaping is magic reinforcing of the body. It happens in response to great trauma. The effects it creates are permanent also. it generally increases magic ability, physical abilities and reduces need for other things, such as food water and air. The reduction in this needs are low, but I like the idea of this sudden mutation just making you slightly better in multiple ways. Since leaping changes you on the phsyical level the effects of leaping are passed down to an off spring.
    Well, couple thing, the label of biomagic is new so I might have missed some detais. Orginally I was calling this a magical internal organ, like a tangible thing. I disliked that though because it implies that a person magic could be surgically removed . So the current idea is a soul organ, in a sense. It sort of makes sense with the context of conciousness being put in the soul. The basic idea is that energy is everywhere. But the magic in a person(even a non magical person) is at higher levels. Because of its higher density it formed a mind. The theory I am using in my world is that the soul uses the brain to control the body. As such when a person dies there soul comes to the after life and this explains why you are well you without the brain, it was only ever the middle link, unneeded in the after life. Does that make sense?

    Well like the onkyuo, it is that the family lineage ability in a sense spread through most of the race. If that anwsers the question on race vs family? That only applies to biomagic though. The reason normal magic isn't so standard on a style being passed down is because what is being passed down is the ability to interact with magic. How this manifest is different in each case. This is because the shape of every soul is different. Even identical twins may have different soul shapes because the shape of your isn't so much a biological factor. Then again, maybe identical twins would have the same soul shape. I never much thought about that before in all honesty. lol.

    And yes there is no reason a animal can't have these same traits but it is rare. Well kind of rare, usually magical manipulation is found in higher intelegence, but if an animal achieved that there is no reason it couldn't happen.

    kind of, more like this is a sense that allows you to control your soul magic, and that control can be extended beyond your physical body.

    So everyone has some level of energy and control. The difference between a non magical person and a magical person is the level of control. Lets say a non magical person has a control of .5 but need at least 1.0 to be considered magical born. Well, as he grows up his level will increase, and maybe he reaches .7 well his chidren inhert his intensity, meaning they start at maybe .6 or .7 as they grow they increase and I think you see where this is going. Though it takes longer than a few generations, but it does work on a postive feedback loop, meaning the more it grows the faster it grows.

    I wanted to be bombared ;) it is why I posted here :). I hope you enjoy the dicussion. And talking helps me understand my ideas better too. So I can write it better.

    I realize I forgot something, living creatures soul is different from the energy around them in the fact that a condensed magical energy becomes a generator. The body of a person allows a soul to charge and replinish its energy(Using real science would probaly imply something like chemical energy becoming magical energy.) This might also help explain why souls get stronger. On reflection too, I suppose it might be weird to say this magical soul organ(generator) works indifferent too biology. It doesn't change that
    a person magic doen't predict the off spring could likely be attributed to the fact that 2 souls are being mixed together, changing the soul shape, and the new shape may have a power completely different than the two that made it.

    Thanks for the feedback and tag your it :D. lol
     
  6. jaebird
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    jaebird Active Member

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    I'm glad talking it out helps, it usually does. When you have to explain it, it makes things clear up and a lot of times shows flaws in the logic of it. Plus, it's fun :)

    I understand the concept of the soul a bit better and how it is passed down, but am still confused as to whether or not humans actually can gave biomagic. My guess would be no, because the 'trait', if you will, has to be passed down for a long time, each generation having the same type of magic. Unless you can have more than one?

    Ooh, twins. Interesting to think about. Would they have the same thing? Or would it they have different ones? If you want to get technical, you could think about whether or not the meshing of the two souls happens once before the egg separates into the two identical babies, or if it happens twice afterward, giving each baby a different shaped soul. I assume regular siblings don't necessarily have the same type as one another either, so it would be similar to this, only at the same time instead of years apart. So it probably would depend on when (and how) this new soul is given to the baby.

    So it is possible to not be born with the ability to control your magic, but develop it later on in life?

    Your turn :)

    By the way, how much of the actual story have you written? Putting the concept into practice also helps to determine if the idea will work, and besides, I'm curious :)
     
  7. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    It is fun :D

    Well in my story, humans have had magic for about 150 years. Like wildfire it spread and the technological connected world fought over how it should be handled. Also as I said, "Leaping" is something that requires only a high enough intensity and a strong emotional trauma. So this sudden mutation, would be genetic, magic changed a persons genetics and off spirng would inherit the change.

    Also I actually intended to for humans to have biomagic, not all humans, actually a small pack nationality(Not sure which, I was thinking Russian area). How this developed so quickly into a gentic change isn't as surprising as you think. Lets compare the 2 biomagic races I have(Yeah, I only have 2, but the set up allows lots of concepts to later fit into that category.)

    The onkyou developed magic before a industrial revolution, they forsack the advance of technology and chose to remain in packs of hunter/gathers. So why changes like this took forever to them is because they were being model by a more natural selection.

    Take the (Fire warrior, yeah I need a better name) they probably had small packs pop up(why different people would develop the same magic is a reason I will explain in a moment). In there case though, the trait was likely saw as so good, that all of them were breed, and possible only them. Think of a magic arms race and you suddenly had a few off springs with this unique form of magic that no one else on the planet seemed to have. Heck yeah you wanted to coltivate it. In reflection, 150 years might seem like small window for this type of change, but then again, maybe they are only part way through the change, maybe they are fully biomagic yet.
    The fire warrior unique form of magic is a positive feedback loop. They generator goes into overdrive as they work up a sweat. So basically the more they exhaust themselves, the more energy they regain to keep it going. This makes them quite dangerous but the drawback is that if they are careful the generator can reach a critical point where they lose control of the energy they generate. Which would mean they die. Since this magic doesn't actually seem to require a genetic change, it is likely one of 2 things is accuring. One the body is actually changed in some small way that supports this change. Or the body has some small change that supports the soul molding in this way.

    Thinking about it, I think I have a solution to something here. How a magic organ takes its shape. A soul becomes stronger from use. Which it is in use even if you don't control magic. Remember I said the conciousness is in the soul, so not to hard of a connect there. Another way it builds is in the presence of other great souls. If you live near someone with a 2.0 for example than your growth might be .5 to .9 instead of if you lived near a 1.0 where your growth would have been .5 to .7 though again these numbers are only for example. A babies soul shape would likely be through a similar pressure interact. Sort of think of there soul like clay and as the fetus grows, the world applies its pressure shaping its soul into a shape. Once a child is born they become strong enough to hold there shape. Shapes are generally fixed, there are few things that alter them after birth. This means identical twins don't have to share the same shape, though they may be more likely too.

    Applying above theory means that since they live in a magical ocean of sorts maybe the fire warriors popped up more frequently in Russia as opposed to other nations because Russia had some quality about it that pushed the soul into that shape. Which considering a fire warrior internal tempature can raise far above a normal human, I assume that might be a useful trait in a cold nation. (Come to think of it, there is a notable difference isn't it. lol the fire warrior ability to withstand higher internal tempatures.) So in the fire warrior case they probably are full of intermidiates, as the transition from just uniquely born magic and biologically based down magic is still accuring, which would be the trait of withstanding higher tempature. If that makes sense?

    Technically as I was pointing out everyone in a sense has some control of magic. Just when you are under 1.0 it is so weak that you can't really do anything with it. If a person reached 1.0 in life, they probably wouldn't even notice. I mean how often do you wake up with the attitude "Ok, now today I am going learn how to use my magic!" lol. In my story there are actually a few families that thing magic is bad and go to great effort to keep magic out of there families. It is a fleeting effort, but the point is, one character who is born with more than enough magic to do some neat things never really learned he had magical talent. His parents didn't, so he never tried, his parents didn't exactly support him finding out. Funny enough you can't really not apply stat magic. So his magically born nature just made him a gifted athelete, no one realized he wasn't infact just that good but getting a magical boast.

    Actual story? Eh, not much actually. Most of my writing is akin to a summary of my ideas, and notes. Though I have lots of ideas! Wondering if I lose the ability to call them notes once they reach 100k. lol Recently I am putting together some actual story content of a Villian from my main story(spin off?). She was an illusionist type :) (Funny enough, she was the first illusion type I ever made.) I have 2 chapters of that posted in the novel section.

    Your turn, so did that clear up anything? Make anything more confusing?
     
  8. jaebird
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    jaebird Active Member

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    Okay, the humans having biomagic makes more sense now, and that was really what I was asking. If they did, then it would be more of a family or nationality thing instead of spread throughout the entire race.

    Positive feedback loops are more rare than negative, because they are all or nothing. They don't have a goal to create stability, which would stop a negative feedback cycle, so they need something to intervene to stop them. The body is extremely careful about how it uses its energy, so I'd hope that these fire warriors would have to work up quite a sweat before this feedback cycle gets started. Either that, or they need to have some sort of mechanism built in or introduced that will stop the cycle before it gets too far.

    So now the soul is not just an organ, it's a muscle. Makes sense, if you think about 'practice makes perfect'.

    I wouldn't think someone would just wake up thinking that today they were going to use their magic. If magic is such a widespread thing, and most people are aware of the fact that others can use it, I would think that they all would try to determine where they are on this 'scale' of ability and practice improving it to a level on which they can use it. So if they did manage to raise it to an acceptable level, of course they would notice. But it would be a continuous process, not an over night thing.

    If I were you, I'd get down and start writing! When you get that far with notes, it's definitely past time to begin the story itself. I'll have to check out what you've got posted.
     
  9. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    Yep.

    Yeah, I saw it as sheer effort, but more on a magical scale, so effort begins the snowball and lack of effort destroys the snowball. Which makes them very dangerous to themselves or others. As with going with what a postive feedback loop is, the greater the effect, the greater the effect becomes. Though I did see a sub section here, something I was calling more of a "Royal Fire Warrior" and yes that too needs a better name lol. The royal version on reflection would likely be someone who had fully crossed over and it is now part of there biologic. I saw them having a more stable version of the feedback loop. Not stable though, just more stable, that they could mentally shut down the effect from a greater point. As well as them all having a basic manipulative control to fire. Not sure if that sounds bad now with your comment on feedback loop. Funny enough an idea a friend had for a "Ultimate" fire warrior was for him to inflict a negative feedback wave on others by not using his energy but using the massive amounts of energy he had to cancell out others. The idea is it was stable because he can't be overridden with energy as he constantly throws it away so it can't overload him. Well technically it could but that would take a long time. Because there would be a limit to how much he can throw at any one time.

    Wait, did I miss something, how is it a muscle?

    Well, yes, in a modern magical aware world this would be true. But imagine if Earth current day used this model and was on the edge of the becoming magical aware. Current day while the world is unaware they could still be plenty of people that did have magic and just unaware to look for it. It could be argued olympic level athetes were supported by stat magic without knowing it just as a character from my story is.
    Yeah, thinking is my craft, writing.... not so much, but maybe this place can help with that. Thanks for the feedback.

    So you like my model?

    I call the novel post "The Order: Redemption" guessing it should be to hard to find lol. Hope you enjoy.
    TAG your it.
     
  10. jaebird
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    jaebird Active Member

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    As long as you have some sort of method for stopping the feedback loop, it should be fine. It could even be simply a magical thing that they can stop it before it gets out of hand. I don’t know what you mean by more ‘stable’ though, unless you mean they have a stronger control over it. But a positive feedback loop is a positive feedback loop.

    A negative feedback loop is like shivering when you’re cold. Your body temperature drops, which initiates the shivering, which raises your temperature, which causes the shivering to stop. I don’t understand how you’re going to use that with your ultimate fire warriors, though.

    It’s like a muscle, because like you said “A soul becomes stronger from use.” Not necessarily a literal muscle.
    Okay, so this is relatively a new discovery for humans, then. Some people could go through their entire lives and never discover that they had the ability.

    I hope you can figure out your novels. You do have a good model here, it just needs a story.
     
  11. jaebird
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    jaebird Active Member

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    Actually, just thinking about it, sweating is actually part of a negative feedback loop. Your temperature goes up, you start to sweat, it lowers your temperature, you stop sweating. So the fire warriors probably shouldn't sweat when their ability gets going, or it would be like their body is trying to defeat its own purpose.
     
  12. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    I figured more stable would be it reacting slower. Since slower means the window to stop it before death is larger.

    Ok, negative feedback loop is maybe the wrong world. First I think I may not have stated as clearly as possible the fire warrior concept and to mention the ultimate fire warrior I think I need too.

    Lets use numbers again, but this time we need three sets of numbers, lets say you have a capacity, an available value and production value. So capacity is your maximum storage, and your available value is how much of that storage you currently have. Production value being how quickly it restores. From person to person these values are not generally that different, if you think of them in percentages. A person with a higher capacity will recovery at a faster rate but since they have a higher capacity it doesn't mean much of a difference.

    Fire warriors are unique here, in a sense they almost have unlimited energy if they use it right. Because there feedback loop works for there production value. So the more energy they burn the faster it recovers. Like you said with positive feedback loops though, they are usually by definition unstable. So a fire warrior can't stay at a preferred notch, they tend to use the energy the loop gives them, but that only reinforces the loop to replenish this energy even faster. The idea is that if they don't stop this, eventually they will produce energy at such a high rate that there physical bodies cannot handle the stress and it will kill them.

    Funny enough, this is not there only weakness. A person capacity is the muscle aspect of the soul(nice catch, never thought of it like that before) and to improve it generally you slowly induce more effort. Since fire warriors easily increase their limit, it is nearly impossible for them to induce a permanent increase. Since effort start the loop, and once the loop finish they return to their standard.

    Royal Fire Warriors I saw as being less jumpy with the loop. Still able to increase there production but the loop being slower, which means they need more time for it to be of any meaningful help but they also have it where they want it for a longer time, also more time to calm down.

    The Ultimate Fire Warrior(funny enough I only have one that does this, but it is implied it is more a technique than a innate ability) discards the boast of the loop, but he still gains it. Imagine sort of like hot potato if you will. He discards ALL his energy(or as much as he can at once, there would be flow limits too actually, which is this styles only weakness), causing the loop to immediately respond. The point is the discarded energy is not wasted, it pushes in from all sides the magic around him. Creating a magical vacuum if you will. Or something similar to that. The idea being that if you are inside that zone, any magic you try and use towards him is blown away by his wave. So fighting him is almost like fighting with out magic As time goes on, the feedback loop not only resupplies the energy to keep it going but allows it to become more intense. Without the feedback loop, this technique would be too costly on energy. The idea also is since he discarding his energy the energy doesn't harm his body. Though since there is a discard cap, it isn't a permanent fix. Just realized, damn, there isn't a way for him to break this loop by discarding energy. Thinking, oh idea. Since it responds to the amount of needed energy could imply he eventually stops suddenly the energy fills up, the extra production does in fact hurt his body until the feedback loop subsides. As mentioned only one person in this story does this and he is probably in the top 10 of strongest characters in the universe. So implying he can handle the strain of the feedback loop is something I am ok with.

    Thanks, I do tend to over think things. Earth in my story has had magic long enough to have created a checking system but I just mentioned for the point that they was a time before that. All planets that have magic had a time before they did. Meaning the first people with magic likely didn't even know.

    So any other questions?
     
  13. jaebird
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    jaebird Active Member

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    It's not that positive feedback loops are unstable, it's just that they need something to intervene to stop them, or the effect just keeps building. There are several that occur in our own bodies. It's good that you have these weaknesses with the characters using magic, it makes it more realistic and believable. Thanks for explaining your model and I wish you luck on your stories!
     
  14. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    Thanks
    And thanks for the feedback.
    Yeah, I always try and balance most of the ideas in my universe :)
     

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