Taking of 'and' ... I have a puzzle for you. Can you give me a coherent sentence with 'and' written five times one after the other?
cutecat: I was always taught to use the Oxford comma, right from grade school through to university, and the reasoning was always clarity. I guess it all depends on where you went to school.
He drank and drank and drank and drank and drank and then he fell asleep. Like that, or do you mean something else and I am having a particularly dumb day and don't understand you again?
In this sentence you put: For breakfast I had orange juice, toast, pancakes, and bacon and eggs. I would have put: I had orange juice, toast, pancakes, bacon and eggs. With two ands, I read it as having the orange juice, toast and pancakes first, then going back for the bacon and eggs.
But that would not be grammatically correct, unfortunately. This is a strange situation, I know, because bacon and eggs is treated as a single item. Toast and jam is another example. (I must be hungry. I can only think of food ones right now.) You wouldn't correctly say, I vacuumed the carpet, washed the dishes, did the laundry. To do that, you'd need to use semicolons and treat each activity as an independent clause. He came; he saw; he left. If you were going to do that with the example I just gave you, you would have to repeat the I to give each of your clauses a subject. I vacuumed the carpet; I washed the dishes; I did the laundry. More likely, you'd say I vacuumed the carpet, washed the dishes, and did the laundry. Does this make sense?
not really (sorry) Yes, if you are treating bacon and eggs as a single item BUT having it separately from the other items on the list. If you are having them WITH the other items on the list, then no need for two ands because bacon doesn't always automatically come with eggs and vice versa. (I prefer sausage and egg, bacon's sometimes too salty for me)
This works because you don't have sweet and sour sauce without the sweet or the sour. This is when you then think about changing sweet and sour to sweet & sour or sweet 'n sour ....
Well, then you'd just say the single item you had without adding the other. You'd still use the and before it though. For breakfast I had orange juice, toast, pancakes, and eggs. I know this is confusing. There are some things that are treated as single entities even though they are separate. Husband and wife is a non food related one that is sometimes treated as one item rather than two. (For the record, and completely unrelated, I always, always spell separate incorrectly on the first try. Irksome!)
I agree! Damn English language!!! (I usually type form instead of from) Husband and wife is a good one! Usually, when you read back to yourself aloud, you can spot the problem when there's too many ands. But in this sentence: "Now they are married they are brother and sister and husband and wife!" the number of ands, just works! Like I said, Damn English language - what a fickle mistress she be! (said like a pirate with one eye closed!)
Sometimes I love it. I use it naturally. I look back over what I've written and say to myself, "Of course! How could there NOT be a comma there?" Other times I say, "Damn you, consistency! You are forcing my hand! Now I must write commas where I don't FEEL like writing them." Other times I remain silent when typing on the train. It makes the other passengers more comfortable. J
Whoa. Bit a necro-thread, I guess, but... there's no way I'd put a semicolon there. That's just not one of the accepted uses of the semicolon. A colon, maybe, but I think an Oxford comma is a much better punctuation choice than throwing colons around willy-nilly!
Take a look at this sentence, which is on the EPG for tomorrow: Jason Manford hosts the variety show, with music by Maroon5, Earth, Wind & Fire, Ella Henderson and Evita star Madalena Alberto, plus Canadian acrobats Les 7 Doigts de la Main Now, you can argue about the inclusion of the comma between Alberto and plus, the omission of the full stop at the end and the missing comma between star and Madalena and between acrobats and Les but what I'm interested in is the comma between Earth and Wind. Yes, is should be there as the name of the group is Earth, Wind & Fire but, if someone reading this didn't know that there was a group called Earth, Wind & Fire, would they be expecting a group called Maroon 5 and a group called Earth and another group called Wind & Fire?
Now THAT would be a good place to use a semi-colon - they're good for replacing commas in lists of complex items. Jason Manford hosts the variety show with music by: Maroon5; Earth, Wind & Fire; Ella Henderson and Evita star Madalena Alberto; plus Canadian acrobats Les 7 Doigts de la Main.
Is "Ella Henderson" the name of a play or movie? Or another performer (I don't know, just asking)? If the former, I'd render this as Jason Manford hosts the variety show with music by Maroon5; Earth, Wind & Fire; Ella Henderson and Evita star Madalena Alberto; plus a performance by Canadian acrobats Les 7 Doigts de la Main. Though I wouldn't fight over italicizing the name of the French-Canadian troupe. No colon is needed after "by," since it's a preposition that takes an object (or several, in this case). No Oxford comma in Earth, Wind & Fire because they've styled their name without one, though damn! I kept wanting to type one in. Names of plays and movies italicized removes the confusion there. I aver you need "a performance by" in regard to the acrobats to maintain parallelism with "with music by." My two cents worth of editing.
I always use it. At the very least, if you have a sentence that is susceptible to two interpretations depending on whether you use it or not, you should use it. Given how simple it is to add it in, and how it removes ambiguity, there's no good reason not to have it.
I don't like using it. I personally think it looks strange, and it tends to interrupt the flow of the sentence for me in an unnatural manner when I read it because I automatically add a "pause" in my mind. It can really throw me off. I understand the purpose of removing ambiguity, but context can already do that in many cases. A lot of the examples I've seen showcasing its usefulness seem like they were deliberately written to be ambiguous without it (and, of course, presented without context). Then again, this is from a fiction-writing point of view. I may be more ready to use it in an informative text where being clear is more important than the reading flow.
OK. Then it would become Jason Manford hosts the variety show with music by Maroon5; Earth, Wind & Fire; Ella Henderson; and Evita star Madalena Alberto; plus a performance by Canadian acrobats Les 7 Doigts de la Main.
