1. mugen shiyo
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    mugen shiyo Contributing Member

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    The Second Coming

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by mugen shiyo, Aug 19, 2011.

    If Jesus was born again or reappeared in the world with all the powers, and probably more, or the prophets, how do you think the world would react to him? This includes the people as well as people in power such a s governments, businesses, industries, corporations, the Church... Keep in mind, Jesus preaches for the personal freedom, happiness, and liberation of the people, often against the true motives of government, authoritarians, and profit-seekers.
     
  2. WriterDude
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    WriterDude Contributing Member Contributor

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    I don't think it would matter. There are far too many people who say he has already returned, and none of them are taken seriously. If you walked around and said you were Jesus, you might be put in a mental institution. And even if you were him for real and even if you used your powers, most people would say it's just a trick.
     
  3. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Does he?


    I honestly think that Jesus would have to re-enter this world in a very grand and impressive way otherwise people wouldn't even bother to hear him out. There is something called the Jerusalem Syndrome that you might want to look up.
     
  4. art
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    art Contributing Member Contributor

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    'Of course, if Shakespeare was alive he'd be writing TV drama. Like Aaron Sorkin. Basically. And, if Jesus was alive he'd be all over Twitter and Facebook, getting his message out.'

    Jog on, Sunshine.

    I have it on good authority that Jesus pitched up at the exact same time George Bush was making his inauguration speech a little while back. He decided to abort the Second Coming, since he felt his presence was not required. Here, at last, was a man with power, whose every fibre was energised by the exquisite principles set forth in the Beatitudes.
     
  5. Clumsywordsmith
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    Clumsywordsmith Active Member

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    Probably the same thing that already happened. He showed up, was quite charismatic and attracted a large following. Leaders got concerned and had him killed.

    The world has changed a lot in the last two thousand years. Basic human nature, however, has not.
     
  6. jonathan hernandez13
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    jonathan hernandez13 Contributing Member Contributor

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    If anyone claims to be Jesus they are usually called insane, or a cult leader, or a false prophet, or something along those line.

    As far as I know, there is no actually infallible Jesus 'test', so his return may be hard to prove, even to his own followers.

    The only rational response would be doubt.:rolleyes:
     
  7. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Jerusalem Syndrome - which I mentioned above - is something people interested in this discussion should look up. It is a religiously themed illusion or delusion that happens among visitors to Jerusalem. Most often these people believe themselves to be Jesus Christ incarnate.
     
  8. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    Doesn't Ivan answer this question in the chapter of The Brothers Karamazov entitled "The Grand Inquisitor?"
     
  9. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Warning - religion is a minefield

    As with every thread dealing with controversial subjects, this one will be closely watched. As long as everyone remains respectful toward everyone else's beliefs, the thread may continue.

    FAIR WARNING! In the past, we have simply closed the thread when it gets too heated. This time, whoever takes it to the point that requires it to be closed will also be subject to an infraction.

    We have had a very poor track record with contraversial threads in the past, and this is why we will follow a zero-tolerance policy on this one.

    So please keep the tone respectful at all times.
     
  10. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    What? That without god everything is permissible?

    I think that's at least in it, but I've not read The Brothers Karamazov. I've just heard about it in talks given by Christopher Hitchens. I'm about to read Crime and Punishment soon though.
     
  11. Clumsywordsmith
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    Clumsywordsmith Active Member

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    Yes, in his own special sort of twisted way. And his response is very much similar to my response. The inquisition finds him, locks him up and prepares to burn him at the stake. Though the second coming is just a backdrop for Ivan's philosophical ramblings, which I won't delve into here as they are incredibly negative in regards to Christianity.
     
  12. Radrook
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    Radrook Contributing Member

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    The second coming of Christ is qualitatively different than his first. The first time he came to die for sins. The second time he is described as coming to execute justice against the nations and cleanse the earth of all wickedness. The book of Daniel speaks of this and in Revelation Jesus is described as leading a heavenly army of angels in order to accomplish it.






    So when we say that he shows up a second time, and that he will be killed again. or ignored and that he calmly accepts it, we are going contrary to what the Bible tells us his second coming will be like. In short, we are writing our own version.

    If we stay with the biblical description we are forced to conclude that anyone opposing Jesus or ignoring him during his second coming will not fair too well since he comes to rule and this time tolerates no opposition.
     
  13. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    If that were true then without some grand showcase of power the best he could hope for would be a small cult following; and that seems unfair to humanity as a whole. Both those who would follow him and those who would be understandably skeptical.
     
  14. Wes
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    Wes Member

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    I don't comment much but I feel I should add His feet will not touch the ground of the Earth when He returns.

    "For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord" (1 Thess. 4:16,17).

    It will not be missed. Everyone will see and know. Or at least that's what I believe. That's why I hate commenting on these. Everyone has their own beliefs, and I don't want to step on anyone's toes.
     
  15. Radrook
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    Radrook Contributing Member

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    Well, if it were true, as you say, then we would have a slaughter of all opposition to Christ as described in Revelation. So the small following would be all that would be left of mankind. But that descripotion has to be understood in the light God being described as omniscient.

    If indeed God has the power to read hearts then he doesn't execute capital punishment indiscriminately nor does he go by outward appearances but takes upringing, health, education, and all other relevant factors into consideration simply because being omniscient-it's at at his disposal and not doing so would be unjust.




    So if indeed true, then we would expect a survival of people who are presently opposed to Christ based on ignorance and not because they hate righteousness or couldn't tolerate living under a God-supervised universe.
     
  16. Radrook
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    Radrook Contributing Member

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  17. Islander
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    Islander Contributing Member Contributor

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    Apart from what's been mentioned above, I think there'd also be those who tried to profit. News reporters, people who took photos of Jesus and sold them to newspapers, people who sold coffee mugs, t-shirts and other trinkets, people who claimed to be working for Jesus and could get you in touch with him for a small fee, and so on.
     
  18. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I don't think I understand. Would there be a small minority left after the 'slaughter', or would those who could open themselves to the truth, if it was presented convincingly enough, be left? Because there are a lot of people who, like myself, would accept this stuff if only it was presented in a way I found convincing.

    And why would upbringing, health, and education be important?
     
  19. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    Between Ivan and Alyosha, Ivan wins the argument. I don't go in for the arguments in The Grand Inquisitor, but in the chapter entitled Rebellion, Ivan wipes the floor with Alyosha.
     
  20. Radrook
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    I personally don't believe that mankind is so intent on living lawlessly that the majority won't abide by what a heavenly benign being would offer. After all, what is offered is eternal life lived under peaceful conditions whether in heaven or on earth.


    So it's not as if some malevolent alien were proposing an unmentionable regime. I think that basically, as you say, most humans want peace and on earth no matter be they atheist agonistic or religious. The present problem is that many don't understand why or since childhood have been subjected to such a constant barrage of anti ID information that they automatically equate believing in an ID as somehow a sign of stupidity.

    But once it becomes clear if ever it does that the is an ID who does want to help and offers his help and that accepting guidance is beneficial, then I'm more than certain that such persons will humbly accept what is proven to them beyond all doubt.

    As for the slaughter mentioned in Revelation, that is reserved for person's who are beyond all moral reach. Persons whom God knows will never be happy in a world where theft, murder, child abuse, adultery, bestiality, wife beating, and other such things will not be allowed. Since there really isn't any possibility for such persons feeling comfortable in such a righteous world, then they have no place in a universe where peace will exist because they are basically predatory haters of peace. How many exactly? Well the description offered in Revelation makes it clear that rhey aren't few. But that has to be undestood within the context of the other vision of a great crowd that does gain his approal and is not targeted in that way.






    Because those are factors which help to form our personalities, give us our values of right and wrong. Why are most Christians Catholics? Because of their upbringing. Why are most people Moslems, the same. Why are many people atheists? Because the school system and the media constantly bombarded them with anti God information until they were convinced that there is no God. So did they really have a fair chance to decide? Some persons are born in religions that taught them Jesus was a criminal executed for breaking the law and nothing more. Did these people have a fair chance?


    Example:


    The apostle Paul was against Christianity because of both upbringing and education. But once he was shone clearly that he was wrong, he changed.


    Why does the Bible say that God took interest in Paul despite Paul's fearsome reputation against Christians?
    Because God read his heart. In the same way with millions today who seem steeped in sin because they enjoy it but who are really behaving that way based on ignorance.


    Did the billions who were brought up as Buddhists, of Hindus or in the Aztec religion and died that way have a fair chance? If indeed they didn't then it would be unjust to condemn them to eternal death. They have to be provided with a fair chance and that's one of the reasons for the resurrection. So that they can choose freely without any cultural or physical factor tilting their judgment away from truth. Once that decision is made without that type of handicap then their future fate can be decided justly.


    Why health? Well, if a person suffers from a severe emotional disorder based on cerebral neural-transmitter defficiency then his or her behavior isn't totally voluntary. The same applies to mental retardation or any other mental disorder either inherited or acquired after birth via accident that might impair judgment.

    So just as in a courtroom such a factor is taken into consideration, so too a being who is omniscient would do so but with far greater efficency.

    In fact, that's why the court decision of innocent-because-of-insanity is reached sometimes. If indeed the person isn't sane then he's not considered morally responsible for his actions. Psychiatrists can be wrong in determining this, but an omniscient being would not. So such persons would not be arbitrarily executed.
     
  21. Admin
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    America would be very angry I imagine. In my humble opinion, I believe that the second coming would be referring to the thirty days after Christ returned from the dead, when he spent his time on Earth sorting things up. The quote-unquote 'Kingdom of God' would be the church itself and the faith in God.
     
  22. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    first of all, he'd have to have some way to prove to everyone in the world that he is jesus, the son of the christian god...
     
  23. jonathan hernandez13
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    jonathan hernandez13 Contributing Member Contributor

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    Bingo, mamma nailed it as usual, we've already brought it up...people are claiming to see and even be Jesus all the time. If ironically the purported Christ ever hypothetically returned even his own believers may call him a false prophet because they may not believe him. What is the divinity test? Miracles? There are people right now who claim to be able to do them.

    There would be no universal response to any God claim, as many claims as there are there are differing views and interpretations, QED.
     
  24. mugen shiyo
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    mugen shiyo Contributing Member

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    Nah, you wouldn't need any proof. He'd prove it beyond a doubt. Being able to produce wonders and such for the world to see that would leave entirely NO DOUBT as to who he is.

    But yeah, there would definitely be people that tried to profit off him immediately (odd, since the end of the world would be near), and he would be watched closely by people of power since his very presence would likely disrupt order and productivity all over the world. I mean, even the people who claim to be religious I'm sure have doubts about what they believe. The Lord provides, but most people go out and get a job just in case, and if there job is stressful and tearing their family apart, most keep that job because getting another one isn't easy and despite their beliefs, Jesus or any other figure is not likely to come help them.

    But Jesus is powerful and immortal. I think there would be all sorts of reactions from all sorts of people. Since he cannot be controlled or removed, the nations, governments, and authorities would likely ally themselves to him or claim to rule in his name. But since some of these nations are not just ones, and surely corruption and greed have penetrated every one of them...what would happen? What would he do?
     
  25. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Sorry mugen, but it sounds like you would accept the anti-Christ of Revelations without question.
     

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