And that is what is known as a straw man fallacy, attacking an argument by substituting an easier target and implying equivalency How many successful writers have written novels without adjectives? Or without words? My argument at least demonstrates that it is quite possible to write great novels with few, if any, semicolons. I did not set out to prove that semicolons are universally awful. All I set out to show is that they are mostly unnecessary. However, I do believe that most uses of semicolons are weak and indecisive. That's a personal opinion, and not one I alone hold. You're perfectly welcome to disagree. Some folks, in fact, make a point of disagreeing with any assertion.
The above quoted statement is a 'logical-fallacy fallacy'. This is when someone incorrectly accuses their opponent of using a 'logical fallacy' in order to appear more knowledgeable and thus deflect attention away from their flawed argument. Clearly the point I was making is that just because an element of technique is sometimes misused/overused, doesn't mean you shouldn't strive to improve your own skills and understanding. In the same way you can encourage people to use adjectives skillfully, you can encourage people to use semicolons or commas skillfully. I don't know. I'll get back to you on that one. I admit, I was indulging in a little bit of hyperbole lol Hmm, let's have a look at this. Mamma said: You then said: and then went on to say: and Please forgive my ignorance. But do you agree with mamma or not? Or only partly? That may be true. But it's not a reason to discourage them altogether, as mamma said. Never? Are you a hundred percent certain of that? Ah, so, your argument . . . Well done. But you did set out to discourage the use of them in fiction. Clearly you were implying that they're awful enough to avoid altogether. Given the fact that you think they are mostly weak and indecisive. Ok. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Seeing as though I'm pretty ignorant, can you please give me an example of 1) a good use of semicolon in fiction and 2) a bad use of semicolon in fiction. Thanks in advance, for you're helping me to learn. Oh, so you don't fully agree with mamma. I see. You're entitled to your belief. I genuinely believe that the premises are flawed. However, if you can give me a better, stronger argument, I might be persuaded. Ah, a subtle version of the 'ad populum fallacy'. Thank you. lol what are you trying to imply? Anyway, I like your attempted sophistry. But I'm still not convinced. It seems pretty clear that you're biased against semicolons and was attempting to discourage the use of them; and then when someone called you out on your shaky premises, you attempted to spin your way out of trouble
I love semicolons. I'm aware that semicolons are a problem if I'm going to seek publication in the United States. I have yet to find a solution to this conflict.
Very true. I read several different short story magazines each month, and I've yet to see a semicolon in any of the stories. I do, however, see them used in essays, but even then it's rare. I'm really not sure why writers/editors (especially American writers/editors) shy away from the semicolon. The school system can't be the only reason.
I think that the reason people like Cogito and Mammamaia discourage the use of semicolons (for fiction writing) is that, as we have seen here, opinions vary heavily from house to house, author to author, and case to case. Given that they are so heavily debated, and given that there is a perfectly acceptable substitute for their use, MOST authors are better served by not using them (or using them very sparingly) in works that they intend to try and publish with 3rd-party publishers. In cases of academic or other non-fiction writing, semicolons can be useful for adding clarity to a text. The caveat to their use in this case is variances in desired/utilized style-books. In the end, if you are a semicolon enthusiast, be sure that you follow the stated rules for their use (and remember that English, as a language, tends to not be prescriptive in its construction, so the rules are never black and white). If you do use them you are well served to query the target publisher/editor/instructor ahead of time and request additional clarification regarding their specific semicolon policies.
while i can't speak for cog, that is exactly my main reason for arguing against their use by new and unknown writers who are trying to snag an agent and publisher... while none will care if you don't use semicolons, some will care if you do... so why limit your chances instead of maximizing them? the same goes for the use of italics for characters' thoughts...
I think a lot of members here assume that everyone is writing for a publisher. You shouldn't be writing for a publisher, you should write what you want to write and how you want to write it, then when it comes to editing, deal with what the publisher wants if your story gets that far. Regardless, rules are meant to be broken, you need to know your breaking them though, not just using it and not understanding its effect. A clever use of periods can change the pace of a story dramatically, overuse can kill it.
That's a perfectly reasonable philosophy, but I would suggest that it's good to know (or suspect) which style choices may trouble for you someday, even if you don't do anything about that fact. For example, I love the way that Rumer Godden inserts spoken quotes by various characters in the middle of her narrative, often quotes from more than one character in a single paragraph. As a child, I read her books so often that I failed to notice that this particular style was unique to her, and I absorbed it into my own writing voice. Someone here (was it Mammamaia?) pointed out that this is not a standard use of quotes, and that if I do use it, it's likely to be seen as (1) incorrect and/or (2) imitating Rumer Godden's style. What I do about that is entirely up to me, but it's useful for me to know that there is an issue, before I spend too much time honing a style that might look like an imitation.
I have just posted a query on semi colon use myself and am now dreading the result, it seems to be a bit of a hot topic! As well as separating two related but separate subjects within a sentence I'm sure they can also be used like a comma, but with a little more emphasis?
Again, it depends on which method you are using. The answer here isn't a general "yes" or "no". Publishers follow style guides, some have their own, some utilize Chicago, some utilize another guide. Each of these guides, in general, are close, but they are different in the specifics. So, the one I'm familiar with, says that you're right, a semicolon and a comma can interchanged when you want to emphasize the pause, but if you're sending your story to a publisher that does not subscribe to that style, it will be viewed as wrong. I think that's why, all in all, the admonishment not to use semicolons is wise. You won't run into trouble when not using them. You may run into trouble when you do. I just realized that you're in England... the rules there concerning semicolons may be very different again from anything here.
But surely an agent and/or publisher isn't just gonna say "Well I love the story and I think it's gonna sell, but heck, he/she used semi-colons so that's the deal breaker for me mate!" If the agent/publisher believes your work will sell, some semi-colons won't stop them. They'd simply edit it out. It would probably only make a difference if the agent/publisher was not 100% convinced of your MS and are on the fence, as it were - in cases like that, a pet peeve could dip the balance.
I remember when I first started using semicolons after I learnt about them in school (about aged 11). Obviously, having been taught about them at that age I had a fairly simplistic view of them; I viewed them as a replacement for "therefore". I started off thinking about it like that, and after a while I just got a better feel for them through using them - you may have noticed me use one in the line above - that wasn't on purpose it's just natural now You can also often use them where you would put a hyphen. Another way to think about the se of the semi colon is as a piece of punctuation between clauses that have basically the same meaning but different emphasis e.g: There was no light outside; it was dark. He was the smallest person I knew; there was simply nobody smaller. Good luck with the ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ; ;
No, but annoying the submissions editor even a little can tip the balance from accepted to rejected. Chances are, you'll never know the factors that led to a rejection. It can be like the death of a thousand paper cuts. No one flaw resulted in the rejection, but an avalanche of minor flaws and annoyances did you in.
I too have a problem with the use of the semicolon. Is it correct to use one in the following sentence: "Five hours ago you could have said he was perspiring; now rivers of sweat ran from his brow." I.e connecting two directly connected events seperated by time with a semicolon. Could I use a dash, a comma or even a period?
You could use a period. A semicolon is also syntactically acceptable. A comma is not, unless you add a conjunction after the comma. A dash would not be appropriate, because the second clause is clearly not parenthetical.
I agree with Cog. on the conjunction, and I'd use one here to make the distinction even stronger. "Five hours ago you could say he was perspiring, but now rivers of sweat ran from his brow."
I was on the anti-semicolon train until I read Eats, Shoots & Leaves. In this book the author eloquently defends the proper use of semicolons and even argues that their correct use is a hallmark of great writing. Some amazing writers have written novels with very few of semicolons; other authors have written great novels with a lot of them. Ultimately it comes down to style. I agree a lot of people misuse them, but one person's misuse shouldn't be used as a justification to suffocate the legitimate, and perhaps beautiful, use by another. Personally, I love them and even wrote a poem defending their use
Rule of thumb: A semicolon can be used if the two parts are (1) related to each other, and (2) they are able to function as proper sentences on their own. Your sentence satisfies both of those requirements, so it's good.
I know a few really good books. The Gregg Reference Manual, It Was The Best of Sentences, It Was The Worst of Sentences, and Grammar Essentials for Dummies. I dunno. The Grammar books I have seem to have differing opinions on this topic. Some say never use semicolons in creative writing and others say that there's no rules against them and to use them if you like them or not, if you don't.
