1. Leaka
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    Leaka Creative Mettle

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    The Truth Hurts

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Leaka, Feb 2, 2009.

    How honest would you say you are?
    When is it a good time to lie and when to tell the truth?
    Are white lies truly harmless?
    When has a lie you told become the truth?
    How long did that lie last?
    When was the last time you lied?
    Does the saying, "Truth hurts" have any meaning?
    If it has meaning, in that case is it all right to lie?
     
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  2. lordofhats
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    lordofhats Contributing Member

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    When it comes to important things I think I'm pretty straight. Little things though I don't really lie as much as just not give an answer. That's sort of lying... EDIT: Actually now that I think about it, it depends on my mood. If it's been going well I tend not to lie, but considering my general apathy towards the world around me, when I'm annoyed or frustrated with something I'll outright ignore questions and hope who ever is asking leaves (yes I know. In the real world I'm a jerk to people about 25% of the time, apathetic the other 50%, and the last 25% I think is a mix of random silliness and the thought grab bag)

    Depends. I think there are times where "sparring someone's feelings" is for whimps and cowards. Children? Let them live in their ignorance till their adolescents or they wise up on their own. They're so young they lose nothing when it comes to little things they probably couldn't grasp anyway. As long as you keep an eye on the big stuff (like things that could get them maimed), they'll be fine with a little fantasy. They'll grow up and most of the time they figure it out on their own with a little helping push from the wiser here and there when necessary.

    As for adults. Sometimes the truth hurts but sometimes a little pain is necessary for people who need a serious life change. Nothing shows someone how harsh it is in the world than a little emotional pain (which contrary to US law, shouldn't have a financial value. When I had pain and suffering the only thing I got for it was more pain and suffering). Suffering builds character and lord knows the world could use a little more character.
     
  3. Kas
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    Kas Contributing Member

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    I'm usually a very honest person. There is nothing about myself that I'm ashamed of. I'll answer virtually any question with the truth. Mind you, there are a lot of people who think I should be ashamed:p I tend to speak the truth as I see it, and upset a lot of people in the process.

    But there are a few people to whom I lie constantly. People who can't handle the truth. Some people live in such obvious denial of reality, it would be cruel to take that protective bubble away. I must ask myself if it would really do them any good to face the truth, if they can even handle it.

    My mother is one such person. There are a lot of issues there, and I won't go into them. I wrote a three page letter to her once and never sent it. I never would - but I showed it to my siblings (I'm one of eight) and they agreed with every word. We have all decided, however, that it's best not to confront her now. She simply doesn't have the coping skills to handle what we might say. She's a very damaged person after suffering through a lifetime of abuse. I am young and I understand; she is old and unable to change. How much would I have to hate her to send her back for another five years of psychotherapy? I don't hate her, but I don't love her either. I feel sorry for her, so I pretend and she seems happy with that.

    The "truth hurts" saying doesn't begin to cover it. Life is complicated and sometimes the truth does more than hurt - it can completely break a person.
     
  4. Kas
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    Kas Contributing Member

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    Another double post - sorry - my isp keeps cutting out and for some reason the data is sent twice.
     
  5. CommonGoods
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    CommonGoods Senior Member

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    I'm a notorious and chronic liar. Have been since I was four years old. My earliest memory is of me discussing something I lied about with my mother. It isn't that I'm ashamed of who I am, but for my lying has always been easier then telling the truth, since telling the truth requires trust. Which I lack.

    For me, lying is a type of self defence; keep people from knowing who I truely am, and perhaps the attacks they throw at me won't hurt so much. Although the last time anyone truely tried to hurt me was six years ago, it has become common practice for me to lie. Although lately, I've started to lie less, and instead just don't tell people things. No sense in lying about things if I can make sure it simply doesn't come up.
     
  6. Carmina
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    Carmina Contributing Member Contributor

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    I am an extremely open person. I will answer any personal question asked with honesty. However, I will feign ignorance if someone asks me about something someone else has asked me to keep secret. I will not volunteer information that would get me in trouble (like not telling my boss how much time i spend on the internet). If asked an opinion, I will give it, but I might couch in in kind terms. I think white lies are ok to an extent. For instance, my friend baked quiche on Saturday and burned the heck out of it. I scraped off the burned tops and ate the rest and said it was fine and not to worry about it. Really, the bottom crust was dry and tasted like carbon. He already felt bad enough as it was. There is a place for lies and a place for truth.
     
  7. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Sometimes, honesty is merely an excuse for cruelty. Factual information can be shaped into a blade to stab someone in the back.

    Just because the facts are verifiably accurate doesn't mean it is really truth.
     
  8. AnonyMouse
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    AnonyMouse Contributing Member Contributor

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    I honestly can't remember the last time I told a lie. It's probably been a few years. Lies just make things worse 90% of the time. I think I've become an expert at crafting the truth in harmless ways, or simply keeping it to myself. People don't ask me to keep their secrets because they know I have a tendency to say, bluntly, "yes, I know so-and-so's secret, but I'm not going to tell you because so-and-so said not to." I believe in taking responsibility for everything we do; I wouldn't do something if I had to lie about it later. I expect the same from everyone.
     
  9. garmar69
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    garmar69 Contributing Member Contributor

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    If you always tell the truth, you will never be caught in a lie. And you don't have to feel guilty.

    Telling white lies, to me, are just as harmful and almost always have repercussions.

    Case in point. My son's cat was run over last year and we told him it ran off. He still talks about it and waits for it to show up.

    His dog passed at the first of the year. We told him the truth about it and had a little funeral. We all cried, mostly for our son because he was so distraught. He was upset for a week or so, but, he's getting over it. Not sitting around waiting for his beloved pet to come home.

    Be kind and respectful when telling the truth and you'll be glad you didn't pander to the weaknesses of others. At least you'll be known as someone who tells it straight.
     
  10. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    If someone you care about asks, "Do I look fat?" do you feed that insecurity just because she's retaining some water that day, or do you reassure her that she looks wonderful?

    Neither one need be a lie, either. Maybe she does look wonderful, even though she;s not at her best.

    Or maybe she's really feeling bad about herself, and really needs a boost.

    People lie for good reasons, not only selfish ones. The Christian Ten Commandments do not prohibit lying. They prohibit only "bearing false witness against thy neighbor," malicious lies intended to harm another.

    There is such a thing as a malicious truth.
     
  11. Carmina
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    Carmina Contributing Member Contributor

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    I think it is funny, people are so trained to give the answer people want to hear. For instance, I am still working on training my husband to answer honestly when I ask a question about my appearance. If I ask if him my boobs or butt look weird in an outfit, I want to know so I can change before I go out in public with pancake butt or some equivalent. I don't want, "Wow, what happened to your butt!?!" But, "Those aren't the best pants for you" is honest, kind, and helpful.
     
  12. garmar69
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    garmar69 Contributing Member Contributor

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    I completely understand what you're saying. But I feel that in my relationship, (and I assume you're meaning my significant other) there is trust and respect for each other and part of that is telling the truth. Like Carmina said, if she asks me if her butt looks weird in something she is wearing--I tell her the truth. She is very confident in the fact that I find her absolutely ravishing and doesn't need me to lie to her when she asks a serious question.

    Likewise, if I smell or have something in my teeth before I go out, I would be very vexed if she didn't tell me because she was worried she may offend me.

    But I always tell her in a most respectful and admiring way if something looks strange. :p

    Her: Can you see my pantie line in these slacks?

    Me: Yes, you should take them off right now. ;)
     
  13. apathykills
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    apathykills Contributing Member

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    *polite coughing*

    The what now?

    as for honesty, i can be more honest with some then with others. The closer i am to someone, the more honest i can be with him\her, me and my best friend have no secrets and i can tell him anything.

    on the over hand there's someone i used to like that i could never be honest with. I know he lied to me many many times and I myself always told him what I thought were little white lies. We're no longer friends and i think it's because of the lack of honesty.

    I still wish he could have been honest with me, and manned up so i could have been honest with him. This experience left me thinking that it's impossible to build a good relationship without honesty, but a little lying is a necessity at the start, so you wont cause offence before the relationship can take it.
     
  14. lordofhats
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    lordofhats Contributing Member

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    There are over 600 commandments (for the theologically inclined). The "Ten" is more of a quick general summary that got heavily expanded on as time went on. Deuteronomy and Numbers go into more specifics. Also: "Thou shalt not bear false witness." Theologically for christians can be defined as prohibiting lying. Today it's generally taken as being a witness and committing perjury or accusing someone of wrong doing when in fact there is none (or withholding testimony that may exonerate someone), but many take it to mean telling untruth (translation troubles as usual. It depends on the version of the Bible and the exact translation. Ancient Hebrew is a hard language to work with). Various parts of the Old Testament and the New Testament mention lying as a sin as well.

    Granted other parts of the Bible clarify this to suggest there are times where lying is not wrong (Exodus). One pastor I knew used the example: "It's not a sin to tell the Nazi's knocking on the door you don't know any Jews when you're hiding Anne Frank in the attic." I generally draw the conclusion to saying lies that harm people are wrong, lies that serve the greater good outweigh the wrong of lying.

    I do see what you mean about malicious truth. When it comes to the hurtful truth a bit of situation reading is necessary. Some people need interventions and good hard taste but I can think of situations where a white lie or big one might be far more appropriate (granted in the ones I'm thinking of a little bit more than truth might be needed... like some hard sit down consoling.).
     
  15. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    extremely... i actually made a solemn vow to never lie or do other harmful things, a dozen years ago...

    it's never a good time to lie... and while it may not always be a good time to tell all of the truth, if it's a choice between leaving part of it out or lying, then lying is never the best option...

    definitely not!... as i put it, 'kind white lies never are...kind, that is!'...

    don't know what you have in mind there, so i can't answer that, though i certainly told some lies in my old life...

    ditto...

    1996, or earlier...

    of course it does!... it usually refers to someone who doesn't want to hear the truth, since it will make him/her have to face an unpleasant one... such as telling an aspiring writer that their work isn't marketable...

    definitely not!... as i often say/write to my mentees, 'nothing less than the total truth can be truly helpful' in re assessing their writing [and other things, as well, naturally]...
     
  16. Mercurial
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    Mercurial Contributing Member Contributor

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    "That's what fiction is for. It's for getting at the truth when the truth isn't sufficient for the truth." --My signature, quote Tim O'Brien, my favourite author. One of Tim O'Brien's main point in most of his works (read: In the Lake of the Woods and How to Tell a True War Story, etc) was that reality is subjective. I love that idea.

    If you're interested in that sort of philosophical questioning, I highly recommend O'Brien's work, especially How to Tell a True War Story (a short story; you can read it in 10-15 minutes, but it will last in your mind for much longer) as it deals solely with these questions.

    I lie more often than most would believe, but certainly I dont tell bold-faced lies. I edit parts of my history that I'm not comfortable sharing with others; I might embellish here and there. (Oh, dont fault me; you do it too! We're writers.)
    From time to time I'll tell a lie to see if I can get people to believe me --but I always tell the audience that the information was false soon after. In that sense, it's recreational! :p

    I'm not saying it's good to lie or bad to lie --not really. I like to challenge the idea of truth, however, and I do so often. :)

    But we all know where to draw the line, societally.
     
  17. wordwizard
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    wordwizard Contributing Member

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    I embellish but never tell a "straight up" lie. I don't really see the point. Whereas embellishing makes a story that much more interesting. LOL

    I think white lies are fine. Unless used in a harmful way.
     
  18. Leaka
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    Leaka Creative Mettle

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    What I mean by when has a lie become the truth.
    How about those lies that last the longest.
    The lies that you find you have suddenly create a lie within an lie that everyones takes as a truth.
     
  19. NaCl
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    NaCl Contributing Member Contributor

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    The title of your OP is The Truth Hurts. I would argue that the "truth" never hurts; only the way it is expressed causes "hurt". You can be honest and compassionate at the same time, or you can be honest in a rude or thoughtless manner. It's not the truth that is the problem.
     
  20. SonnehLee
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    SonnehLee Contributing Member Contributor

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    I lie. A lot. More than I should, really.
     
  21. Gone Wishing
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    Gone Wishing Contributing Member

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    Agreed 100%.
     
  22. Leaka
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    Leaka Creative Mettle

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    But thread itself is about lies in general.
    It was being used a figurative and metaphoric reasoning for a title.
    It wasn't generally just about the Truth Hurts.


    I thought that everyone would understand that Truth Hurts comes with lies.
    Or something along the lies.
     
  23. NaCl
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    NaCl Contributing Member Contributor

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    I understood the context of the thread. I chose only to address the title. Telling lies is an entirely different topic and I do not agree that lies are a necessary compliment to "truth hurts".
     
  24. Mercurial
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    Mercurial Contributing Member Contributor

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    I again love the idea that truth and fiction are interchangable because reality is subjective. It's like that 'scary' story that they tell you in health class: "My friend was the captain of the football team. But alcohol was one thing he couldn't bench press."
    Probably not true, but it gets the point across a lot more clearly than "I dont know anyone who's ever been in an accident from drinking and driving, but my cousin knows a guy who does..."

    Sometimes a lie is more real and sometimes more useful than the truth.
     
  25. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    Lies.

    Such complicated little beasties.

    Did you know that the ability to lie is one of the hallmarks of intelligence and self awareness. The ability to construct a nonfactual concept, pass it off to the recipient as actual for the prospective benefit of oneself is a very savvy little trick.

    Primates have been caught in very purposeful lies in research situations and their apparent ability to do so is used as an argument for their self awareness.

    My puppy regularly employs the ‘fake out’ when we play chase around the sofa. He lures me in one direction, knowing I am slower, and then bolts in the other direction using the ground he has gained by deceiving me.

    There is no natural state of goodness or of evil. These are arbitrary concepts humans dreamed up in their idle time. There is only self preservation, sometimes called selfishness, and one of the most obvious outward behaviors associated with self preservation is lying to achieve greater personal benefit.

    Deception in humans and other animals

    ^ interesting stuff ;)
     

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