1. Ferret
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    Ferret Contributing Member

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    The parts of your soul you refuse to recognize.

    The Ultimate Sin?

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Ferret, May 20, 2007.

    Apathy. Does anyone else consider that word to be up on the naughty scale right next to kill? I mean, honeslty, its the biggest waste of time ever...
     
  2. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Eh - who cares...

    (Sorry)

    Seriously, though, I don't think apathy is on the same scale as a killing hatred. No one has the emotional energy to expend on every issue, and one person's vital crusade is not everyone's passion.

    Sometimes it hurts that something very important to you seems to evoke no emotion from someone else, but at the same time you may feel that what they obsess over is silly.

    Priorities differ.
     
  3. Heather Louise
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    Heather Louise Contributing Member Contributor

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    what does apathy mean? sorry, lol.
    Heather
     
  4. Alice in Wonderland
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    Alice in Wonderland Contributing Member

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    Apathy: absence or suppression of passion, emotion, or excitement.

    I don't think apathy is a sin at all. Some people just find things unmoving while others are on the opposite scale. It really depends on the persons personality and background to how they'll react to something. You can't damn a person because of their personality and how they were brought up.
     
  5. Crazy Ivan
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    Crazy Ivan Contributing Member

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    By apathy, perhaps he means standing by and letting something happen to someone else because you don't care.

    To be honest...I don't care enough to write an answer to that right now. (That's not a joke, that's a serious answer.)
     
  6. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    it can't be a 'waste' of time, because it is the lack of spending time thinking of something...

    but i do agree it's right up there with all the worst evils committed by humans, because it allowed those evil acts to be committed and continue to be...
     
  7. Heather Louise
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    Heather Louise Contributing Member Contributor

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    ok, thanks for defining apathy for me. and whether apathy is wrong depends on the situation i think. sometimes people have to/cannot help but detach themselves from a situation. but other times it can be bad as they are letting something bed happen.
    Heather
     
  8. The Freshmaker
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    The Freshmaker <insert obscure pop culture reference> Contributor

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    I think that extreme apathy is bad. However, I don't think that we'd be able to live and advance as a people without some kind of apathy.
     
  9. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    sorry, but that makes no sense whatsoever, to me... especially the 'advance' part!
     
  10. The Freshmaker
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    The Freshmaker <insert obscure pop culture reference> Contributor

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    Well, I was thinking of all the violence and conquering that has gone into making this world the way it is today. But it's okay. Ignore me. I know nothing.
     
  11. Night Haunter
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    Night Haunter Banned

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    Then open your blinds curtains and take a good hard look at the world you live in, you'll soon see the sense then.

    Yes you are correct there is and has being a lot of violence to create the world we have to day.
    Right now men and women are in iraq afghannistan and many other places fighting for freedom so others may live in saftey and have their freedom.

    Its the way the Earth spins.
     
  12. A.K.Asha
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    A.K.Asha New Member

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    What about hypocrisy? The act of hypocrisy is rife throughout our little globe and our elected democratic leaders are at times just as guilty as a self-imposed dictator.

    AK
     
  13. Night Haunter
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    Night Haunter Banned

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    perhaps but its the people that fight if we ignore our leaders we would have a more peaceful globe
     
  14. Kit
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    Kit Contributing Member Contributor

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    I don't know to be honest, I think on some levels apathy is right up there with some of the worst...

    I was actually reading an article the other day about a teenager that committed suicide due to bullying, and it is (although not a fact) said by teachers and parents alike that they believe his classmates knew what was going on... but by ignoring the situation and not wanting to become "snitches" or end up bullied themselves showed a degree of apathy. They could have ended his suffering if they told someone in a position to do something what had been happening. In your opinions is that a sin?

    With regards to hypocrisy (I'm not sure if that is how it is spelt), i'm not sure if i'd call it a sin as such but its up there with my pet hates...
     
  15. E-bow
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    E-bow Banned

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    Making value judgements are no less a sin. Turning a human being into a mere thought form, and weighing their worth. So awful, and that is responsible for a large amount of suffering on this earth.
     
  16. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    fyi, i'm a full-time philosopher, have no curtains or blinds on either my windows or my mind... and i observe and study the entire world, not just the part i live in, so see the sense [or lack of it] in just about anything... here's what i said made no sense:

    if you think you can make sense out of that wording, go ahead, but don't just say i'm not looking at the world i'm studying 24/7 and have been for probably much longer than you've been in it... ;-)
     
  17. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I must disagree. Making value judgements is how we decide what is right and wrong, and what is acceptable or unaceptable behavior.

    Value judgements should be based on sound reasoning, and it is also important to know what assumptions you are basing your judgement upon.

    If you don't make reasoned value judgements, it is a waste of mind.
     
  18. Frost
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    Frost Contributing Member

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    It makes sense.
    Man kills animal.
    Man is apathetic to killing of animal because its a source of food.
    Man dies exploring.
    Man is apathetic to the death because new territory has been discovered.

    A rather flawed example I know, but you get the general gist.
     
  19. Onoria Westhrop
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    Onoria Westhrop Contributing Member

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    I find the question of rating evils on a scale interesting. I would be delighted to hear your opinion on whether or not vices and virtues have a necessary order.
    Let me clarify my question. People often say the road to evil is a slippery slope. You start doing one thing wrong, and that leads you on to other vices. To many sweets leading to smoking, leading to alcoholism etc.
    Now the question is are certain evils logical requirements of others, and certain virtues logical requirments of others? Can you love without wisdom? Can you be brave without self-control? Can you murder without envy?
    If we imagine that vices and virtues have the form of a ladder (no matter if you consider murder to a be a virtue or vice, which would be the opposite to me - you might still apply the idea of an order to these things) is there a first step on the ladder? And if so, what is the first virtue, and what is the first vice?
     
  20. Torana
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    Torana Contributing Member Contributor

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    That would be very hard to decide really. I personally have got no idea which would be the first step to be honest.
     
  21. Onoria Westhrop
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    Onoria Westhrop Contributing Member

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    Yeah, it is a real toughie isn't it. I suppose because people have very different ideas of what constitues good behaviour, their ladders must of necessity vary. It sounds a staid question in this format, but books like "The good women of China" or "How to be good" do highlight the confusion that exists in our society about how we can be good parents, siblings, lovers, women, men etc. I don't proclaim to have a solution to these problems, but I do think rationalizing your ideas about ethics, keep fit or writing etc. is vital to success.

    In my opinion, for what it's worth, I think self-control practiced through things like exercise, giving up chocolate for lent or fasting for a religious festival may well be a good place to start my ladder of virtues. I think that many other things I consider virtues cannot exist without self control. The problem is that it is so hard to get into! As Saint Augustine famously said of his youth, "Lord grant me chastity and continence, but not yet."
    That would make the lack of the will to be good NOW my first vice, and the first paving slab of "good intentions" to pave my road. Don't get me wrong, I'm not at all religious and belief has always struck me as over-rated as a virtue. Perhaps it is more important for an atheist to consider ethical questions because atheism really doesn't have the sort of grounding in a transcendental authority that religion offers for its morality.
    It's so easy to start the diet after one last packet of cadbury's buttons...
     
  22. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    i don't believe in any god/s or religion, but do have a simple explanation of good and evil that i use in living as 'good' a life as i can manage, being the imperfect being i am...

    'good' does no harm to any fellow creature or one's habitat
    'evil' does
     
  23. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I usually wince whenI hear good or evil used as endpoints of a scale of measurement. Some actions cause harm to a greater or lesser number of people, but this does not mean there is a corresponding malicious intent.

    I believe in needs and motivations. People act out of fear, or out of desire, or to increase some value that they perceive as important. Even those who take delight in causing harm, do so because of harm that was visited upon them.

    In my opinion, of course.
     
  24. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    there's nothing wrong with black and white moral 'end points'... here's my take on those who'd justify shades of grey:

     
  25. NicholasConners
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    To be religious means to have absolute apathy. For the most part.

    However depending on your religion the ultimate sin would be to deny the God or messiah such as the phrase "I deny the Holy Spirit".
     

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