Where do you live Cacian? No offense or anything, but maybe your life has just been sheltered. I have no idea why you wouldn't understand these things otherwise. Didn't you have a neighbor who plays loud music everyday until 4am, a co-worker who made it their mission to harass you for no reason, a person in the street or bar who picked a fight with you because you were there? You're saying you've never even entertained the notion of hurting somebody, or had an episode of uncontrollable anger? Fear? We haven't "already survived". It's an ongoing process each second of our lives until we finally lose. All of this stuff is a part of the world and I have no idea why someone would want to discard it for some misguided idealism.
Everyone is born with good and evil inside of them, and in some case one outbalances the other. In my personal opinion, its our own personal experiences that impact on how lifes no matter how small. You are you who are because that is what you have been educated with. And in some cases you have people in the extremes who believe they are right and the entire world is wrong. The point with fear is that in games and books, it can drive a story, it has been with us ever since we were cave men outrunning a wild beast or simply using instinct to survive. Every man, women, and child is different and unique without it, we would be a very dull specie with little hope at all. But our driving emotions of happiness, fear, anger, and many others have evolved humanity, has taught us to learn from our mistakes. I recommend a poem I read in English a while back called Vultures. It can be related to this. Basically everyone has their own taste. You may or may not agree but point is acceptance. I mean I like a lot of different music, from linkin park to Adele because in their own way they inspire me with ideas. Anyhow, it's been said before but humanity for some reason or other feeds on the adrenline rush, and it likes being on the edge of its seat whether its reading, or playing a videogame. Edit: Humanities need for survival will always remain because without it, we would die. Extinction. We lose that then life has no real meaning. Existence is the driving force for all things, human or otherwise. We are an animal. i think people forget that.
Well, I suppose on the flipside, there's always that promise of redemption. For every hero who falls; there is a villain who wishes to atone, to be that hero again. So while we humans may be capable of great evil, we are capable of great good. That's the kind of story I like. It's not all bleak, desolate, and dark. Sometimes, sometimes you need to be reminded of why these characters are fighting. They're fighting for that one spark of goodness. Sometimes, the villain redeems him/herself. That always makes for a good ending, no? Why have the hero kill the villain when he/she can make the villain see that what he/she had done was wrong and offer him/her a chance? The rush is great, but I love story with happy endings. Especially if the heroes have gone through hell to get that happy ending. Makes everything worth it. If that's what you're looking for, I suppose. You may not be the type who likes stories that do not end well; stories that only focuses on the dark side of humanity while ignoring what good we have.
What's the difference between a hero and a villain? They always seemed very similar to me, except that one wins then writes the history to their liking.
What your saying is from one perspective someone can be percieved as good, then from another as bad. But i understand where your coming from though. Theres a thin line between good and evil
yes I have noisy neighbours, and yes I have been harassed more then you can count, and yes I have been angered you name it I had it but there was not once where I thought or even crossed my mind to hurt anyone. I do not understand why you are finding this difficult to believe. I am not being funny or disrespectful but I am telling what I know and as it is. I think the angriest I got was in self defence where I threw something back or trying to hit back in protection my ex partner someone who tried to do the same to me first. Then I learned quickly that I was wasting my time and so walked out on him. I was not going to put up so I left. I chose the easy way and that is of walking away from violence. I do not resort to violence naturally it is not within me. That is your process not mine. I am not here to lose. That is my choice and I am very happy with it. You are different from me and I am happy that you are. One thing you must remember is that we are not all the same.
@Cacian Ok, now I’m confused. You said: I have no dark sides in me because I have not committed anyhting dark this is how I know. but in your next comment, as a response to people do have a dark side. you said: I agree that they do but similarly people do have a logical softer intellingent side too. It is 50/50. So which one is it in the end? When you say "people" do you exclude yourself from that statement? Or was the first statement incorrect? All this looks to me like denial, and while you are entitled to it, you can't be surprised that people are challenging it.
Not exclusively, but everyone suffers pain in life. That's pretty much a given. No one is rational all the time, an no one uses their intellect all the time. Why? Because no one is infallible. If you honestly think that Tragedy and horror is call to close yourself away from the world then you can't develop a full understanding of humans and how they work. Potent usually means 'overpowering' actually. I suggest you actually read something like Oedipus Rex, because otherwise you have nothing to base your assumptions on. Regardless of what you thought at the time, or how you acted, the fact you have admitted to being frustrated and angered shows you have a capacity for darkness, because they are negative emotions, by default you must have the capacity for them. Horror is all about exploring this capacity in a safe way.
well I came to the conclusion that this is a possibility because we have a healthy side/ a better side if you like in us. so the opposite must also apply hence my statement. I said I might have like everyone else I could not deny it , that is a propability. We are humans with conflicting emotions and feelings, so I am not ruling it out, but as far as I know, up to this day, I have not committed violence or hurt anyone on this basis I exempted myself from the dark side, and until then I can carry on saying it. A dark side can be dormant to intense depending on the individual circumstances. I one believe that with exteriors factors and other sources of emotional positive energies we human are able to control the dark side even extinguish it/make it disappear/erase it. It is a possibility that is well worth pondering about.
From what I know,people who are depressed who find solice in horror or even take to it to make them feel good and understand what the world is about then what can I say,it is their own understanding. I personally think that there better ways to understand what people are about . I can draw conclusions for myself because I am in contact with people all the time and I know what they are like. I live with people and amongst them. How more real does it get. Now to go and read about it too will literally do my head in. I have had enough experiences on a daily basis to know what people are capable of . To want to read about it again is not something I like to do. you must understand that the frustrations came because I have been provoked or pushed to it but the end result did not end in me committin worser violence. I walked away from it. That is one way of dealing with anxst and violence.Because I did not recognise my self in all of it, so whilst I responded in a a similar way in self defence, I did not go on to act violently for the rest of my life. I am not a violent person and I do not provoke insult or hit anyone today because I removed myself from it. So I guess I acted in a way in self defence for a moment, but I thought better of it and decided to end it because I did not want to become another violent or badtempered feeding from another violent person. I did the sensible thing to keep my sanity and that is of leaving. That is not a dark side.
Okay, so what you're saying is that you manage to reel back the urges, to be a better person? That's a virtue. That's what everyone ought to do. Pissed off? Just walk away before something bad happens. Again, you probably don't like reading dark, depressing books that explore how low humans can sink in their treatment of one another. That's okay. You're more than perfectly allowed to not read those books. I myself don't want to spend my time reading books where someone's committing horrible atrocities on another person every fifth paragraph, where there's no spark of hope, etc. Why? Because I don't want that in my head. Why are they into studying how low people can go? I...don't know. I guess it's to help remind us that even though we call ourselves civilized, there's still a relic of the cavemen days locked within us, the brutal, merciless side of us that we don't want to share in public. Reading stuff like that allows them to explore those themes safely and I'm cool with it. I won't read them, but I'm not going to tell others to not read them.
No offence but this is silly. Most people who are depressed that I know find solace in chocolate and Hugh Grant films. Even me. None of this matters. Because you got frustrated shows you at least have the capacity for darkness. It doesn't matter if you don't act on it, that just shows you can reason, but the capacity is still there regardless because no one is infallible.
Pretty much what he said. Not acting on the urges only proves that the person has morals and the ability to use reason and logic. Doesn't mean the urge isn't still there.
In truth, we humans are complex, it could take years before we even understand ourselves. And you can't hide from what you are.
^ In 22 years of my life, all I've managed to conclude that we are confusing as hell. The sooner one accepts this, the easier things will be now that they're not constantly pulling their hair out going, "HUMANS! Y U NO MAKE SENSE!?"
sorry, but all that 'every single person has a dark side' gluck is total nonsense... most babies are not born with a proclivity for 'evil' or bad behavior... while there may be a possibility that a rare few may have a genetic makeup that predisposes them to develop a violent personality, it's still just a theory and hasn't been proven conclusively yet... and the environment in which they are raised can overcome it, even if it does exist... so most, if not all babies are born without any predisposition one way or the other and the only determining factor in re how they behave as they grow to adulthood and beyond is their parental/nurturing environment, the physical condition of their brain, and the effects on them of the society they grow up and live in, combined with their own free will and the choices they make...
Every human does have the capacity for a dark side, you would not be human if not. Whether they're ever pushed or turn to that dark side is another matter, but aslong as your heart beats and your blood is still flowing, you have a dark side. Whether you know it or not.
I am not so sure I agree. we are complex yes but we have a brain/intelligence to see us through in life without harming ourslelves or others. After that anything goes. If one has mastered the art of conversation, the most important tool of communication, then by standards one has achieved more and beyond. If humans being has mastered language, creativity, productivity and sanity, because of our mind is capable of it (healing is one), then there is no reason to think that humans are difficult to understand. There is no excuse for slacking. That is my view on it.
You're mucking several things together, as if they're all the same 'dark side' = 'evil' = 'propensity for violence'. As your high regard for babies, that's unfounded. We like to believe that babies are all love and peace, but in fact, a baby from zero to six months is unable to distinguish between himself and the people around them, that's why the general advice over here is that you cannot spoil a 0-6 month baby enough. However, a baby has total disregard for its environment as regards to its needs. Hungry? Scream. Shat your diaper? Scream. Thirsty? Scream. It's not evil or dark or violent, but it is selfish, except that there is no real 'self' as such. When babies become 6 months old, they start distinguishing between themselves and other people, in other words, they're developing a 'self'. General advice, give them boundaries to provide security and don't react straight away to their demands to teach them patience. If you don't do that, but meet their every demand without restraint, the infant doesn't learn how to curb primal urges and becomes utterly selfish. Parents teach a child to conform, to learn right from wrong, to be attentive to other people's needs. When children grow up, they constantly test their boundaries, most of the time by breaking the rules their parents want them to obey. This is the dark side. The urge to break the rules of conformity, to test boundaries. Go to any neighborhood and study young children at play. What do you see? Children play-fighting to protect their territory, another primal urge of mankind - the need to form groups and assert dominion of others, occupy territories. War and strife is in our nature. We can use our intellect and our empathy to negate these urges, but we cannot deny having the urges.
A pretty heady discussion on the intricacies of human nature. I think Cacians definition of having a dark side is one that involves acting out dark thoughts as opposed to some others who are suggesting that having dark thoughts equates to having a dark side. Truthfully, I'm more inclined to believe the latter. To stay somewhat on the original topic, however, I'd just like to reiterate what I said before about a persons choice of reading material not necessarily reflecting on their own actions or nature, something thats come up in the debate about violent video games before as well. I would like to suggest Cacian, that you might have overlooked something with your refusal to read such material; since the majority of all fiction has some sort of conflict in it, whether it be man vs. man, man vs. himself, man vs. nature and the other countless combinations, I believe that it could greatly widen ones outlook on the antagonizing force in your own stories if you were to read those that have more of a focus on those darker forces in the universe. Consider it research if not pleasure.
A legitimate trauma, like being raped or like seeing someone you love die, yes. But scary moments from books and movies? Seeking medication for the rest of their lives? Hmm..... We're all different, and if you are that way, avoid things that bother you. But the rest of us like some good thrills when reading. And no, liking horror doesn't mean that you want to watch people get tortured or abused or splattered in gore. Good horror is based on suspense and mood-building.
Well... I'd say that babies are absolutely born with a proclivity for bad behavior, that it's essentially impossible for them to be born any other way. Babies are not born with empathy. That means that by my definition they're not capable of either good or evil, because by my definition, both good and evil are based on empathy. So you could say that a baby is a blank slate, except that babies _are_ born with drives and desires and needs. Babies _want_. They want food, attention, comfort, elimination of discomfort. They are inherently and utterly selfish, and selfishness leads to bad behavior. This is not evil, because, again, they have no empathy and are incapable of understanding that they're selfish, incapable of understanding that others also have needs, incapable of understanding the _idea_ of "others". They want. That's all they know. So babies aren't evil. But I'd say that they're absolutely not good, in the sense of good-versus-evil. They don't have the programming, the empathy circuits, that would allow them to be either good or evil. They still need to acquire that. Acquiring it is a learning process, and I think that that learning requires exposure to concepts of evil as well as good. And as adults, I think that much, possibly most, of our darkness comes from issues of empathy. Evil is, I think, quite often a choice to ignore the call of empathy, or to pretend to misunderstand it, and cause harm in spite of that call. More evil is being able to hear that call to the extent of understanding what will hurt another person the most, and using that knowledge to hurt them. I think that all day every day, we all make decisions based on empathy, between good and evil. To know how to make those decisions, I think that we need to see evil, as well as good, because they're not all that easy to tell apart. The woman who loves and protects her child is good - until she overprotects him, and keeps him from leaving home to have his own life, and undermines his relationships with possible partners. The man who protects and guides his wife thinks he's being good, and goes on thinking it when he shouts at her and controls her every move and slowly progresses to violence. The executive who protects his company's profits thinks he's being good, and goes on thinking so when he continues to sell a dangerous product. Very few evil people _think_ they're being evil. We need to see evil to see what it looks like. ChickenFreak
I am not so sure about that. Lots of evil people have a striken intelligence to them. They know exactly what they are doing, to say that they don't is simply excusing them. Mad people don't know they are mad. Apart from that everyone knows exactly what they are up to. Some evil enjoy being evil because it gives a 'boost' a kind of a thrill so the more they do and the more they get, but that more is no longer enough so they do more and worse...but again it is not enough. It is exactly like 'junkie' till 'overdose'. That is the reality of what evil is. why do you need to see it? Is it not enough to hear it? I don't NEED to see to UNDERSTAND. You see that is me. You are obviously very different from me. Vive la difference.
