1. waitingforzion
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    waitingforzion Active Member

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    This is written early modern English, but is it to hard to understand?

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by waitingforzion, May 19, 2016.

    Barlius, an advocate of thy benefit and a teacher of the way of virtue, unto Marie, the tutor who helpeth many in the spirit of kindness.

    Greetings!

    It hath distressed me greatly, that day after day thy beauty is left unmanifested, even as in thy conduct thy virtue is not revealed, because thou hast rendered unto thy own friend so great a judgemet with prejudice, shunning his soul with permanence.
     
  2. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    Not entirely sure what you're trying to say, but shouldn't it be "thine own friend?"
     
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  3. mrieder79
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    mrieder79 Not a ground squirrel

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    It is very hard for me to understand even after four readings. I get that she has shunned her friend, but it is hard for me to connect this to the unmanifested beauty and the unrevealed virtue.
     
  4. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    Yes, it is hard to understand.
     
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  5. izzybot
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    izzybot Human Disaster Contributor

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    I think I get it.

    "From Barlius (friend and teacher) to Marie (kind and helpful tutor):

    Hello!

    I'm sad that day after day I don't get to see you (similarly to how you behavior doesn't show/indicate your virtue) because you've judged me and have shunned me permanently."

    Even if I'm right though, yeah, it's pretty dense and flowery.
     
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  6. HelloImRex
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    HelloImRex Contributing Member

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    I understood the second sentence but the first and third lost me.
     
  7. waitingforzion
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    waitingforzion Active Member

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    Thou hast decreased my approval of thee, because thy beauty is left unmanifested, for in thy conduct thou lackest virtue, and thy beauty is known by thy virtue.
     
    Last edited: May 19, 2016
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  8. JLT
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    JLT Active Member

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    Good catch.

    And it should be "the tutor who helpest many in the spirit of kindness." Second person singular, you know, since the implied subject is "you" rather than "he, she, or it."
     
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  9. mrieder79
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    mrieder79 Not a ground squirrel

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    This was much clearer than the first one.
     
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  10. waitingforzion
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    waitingforzion Active Member

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    Is the following clear. I don't want to hear if it uses more words than you think it should. I just want to hear if you can understand is easily, which is what it means to be clear, which does not mean to be concise.

    Sandra, the beauty that exceeds the beauty of all the girls of the world, who carries the virtue of of the girls of kindness.
     
  11. waitingforzion
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    waitingforzion Active Member

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    What about this passage? Is this hard to understand?

    Call not the bobby to thine aid, when thou art taken by the fear of men, but bring thou with thee thy gun against them, that by thine hand thou mayest be safe.
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
  12. minstrel
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    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I don't find this clear. First, it isn't a complete sentence; it doesn't really express a thought. Second, I don't know what you mean by "the virtue of the girls of kindness." Do you mean that kindness is a virtue of the girls? Or do you mean there's some other virtue, one which is carried by a subset of all girls you refer to as "the girls of kindness"?
     
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  13. minstrel
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    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Staff Supporter Contributor

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    This is easy to understand, but it's a bit jarring to read. The language is so archaic that using it to discuss bobbies and guns seems quite anachronistic. Would you write something like, "Driveth thine Volkswagen Jetta to yon McDonald's, that ye mayest obtain thy coffee of the morn, and an Egg McMuffin." Probably not, I think. The language doesn't fit the subject matter.
     
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  14. KokoN
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    KokoN Active Member

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    I can mostly understand it but I also used to read Shakespeare so my opinion may not be helpful. :p Might I ask your purpose behind writing that passage in Early Modern English? Is a large portion of the book going to be in that style, or just that passage, or what?
     
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  15. KokoN
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    KokoN Active Member

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    Love this. I think it's pretty easy to understand too. Now I'm going to go find my Shakespeare again and read it because you're making me miss it lol. Seriously though I like this passage a lot.

    Not loving this one. It's easy to understand but I just don't like the way it's worded. Too much repetition and the language seems off somehow.
     
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  16. waitingforzion
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    waitingforzion Active Member

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    I am not really writing anything serious right now. Just playing around. Is this hard to understood, or does it contradict itself in any way. I feel like the wording might be somewhat contradictory.

     
  17. KokoN
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    KokoN Active Member

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    Not sure how I feel about "a revealer of knowledge with haveth to do with thy virtue." Why is he defining himself as someone who tells her how virtuous she is? That seems odd. Could it simply be "revealer of virtuous knowledge" instead? Also don't like the last fragment. Might reword:

    "...the tutor who, with kindness, once helped so many unto..."

    Not quite sure what you're trying to say with the "unto the greatness of their work" so it's difficult to give advice for that although I'm not too fond of it.

    Also I'm no expert on Early Modern English so don't take my word for it. Where did/do you get your knowledge of it from?
     
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  18. waitingforzion
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    waitingforzion Active Member

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    My know
    My know!edge of it comes from the Bible, but I don't claim to fully understand it. I may be using it wrong.
     
  19. KokoN
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    KokoN Active Member

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    Gotcha :) I thought it sounded very King James Bible-y. But also Shakespeare-y. (I'm so good at words. Lol)
     
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  20. waitingforzion
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    waitingforzion Active Member

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    Do you find this better at being clear?

     
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  21. Oscar Leigh
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    Oscar Leigh Contributing Member

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    If this is the actual writing your using and not dialogue of some kind I would advise against it. It's not impossible to understand but it's not as easy as normal English. If it's was Victorian dialect it might be worth but this seems too much of a toil for the readers. Why make them suffer through it? I would suggest you use modern language but spice it with some of the vocabulary and phraseology of the time. It reflects the setting but it can still be understood.
    Good luck on whatever historical thing your doing! History is cool! Stay cool!:superagree:
     
  22. waitingforzion
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    waitingforzion Active Member

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    Is this better? This is in the modern English:


     
    Last edited: May 21, 2016
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  23. Oscar Leigh
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    Oscar Leigh Contributing Member

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    Yes. That feels old enough to not be anarchonistic but it's not a little difficult to read. Why not say "virtuous knowledge" though? "Knowledge of virtue" is very awkward. Is it because it's knowledge on the subject of virtue? Why not "saintly wisdom" then perhaps? It's an interesting question how antiquated you can get away with. Hmm. :superthink:
     
  24. waitingforzion
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    waitingforzion Active Member

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    A revealer of virtuous knowledge seems to work. But it is not the knowledge itself that is virtuous, it is the virtue that the knowledge is about. But both of those phrases seem to conform to the proper rhythm. Both xx'x x'xx 'x and xx'x xx'x x'x seem to have the same voice.

    When I wrote the first sentence originally, I wrote the cadence first in that notation, but for the second sentence I depended on my ear. I practiced using the notation in order to get a feel for rhythm without having to come up with things to say, because I had a hard time using words without rhythm and revising words for a rhythm I did not know. Playing around with cadence on its own helps me to get a feel for it.
     
  25. waitingforzion
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    waitingforzion Active Member

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    I have revised the passage again to be more flowing.

    This letter is kind of based on something real, but I think I want to make it a piece of epistolary fiction.[/quote]
     
    Last edited: May 21, 2016

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