1. Reilley Turner
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    Reilley Turner Active Member

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    Grammar "Thug" language help

    Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by Reilley Turner, Jun 6, 2015.

    In my short story/novel, there's a part that features the "stereotypical" gang with some "stereotypical" thugs, but I have a dilemma; I have no idea how to make them sound like "stereotypical" thugs. I have a feeling that it messes up words like "here" to be "'ere" but I am not sure. Advice and examples especially would be greatly appreciated, as I have need of it.
     
  2. Stacy C
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    Stacy C Banned

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    Where is the story set? What ethnic or racial group do your thugs hail from?
     
  3. Reilley Turner
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    Reilley Turner Active Member

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    It's a fantasy novel so its a gang of "stereotypical" thugs. I don't know how else to explain it. Sorry if this doesn't help. :/
     
  4. No-Name Slob
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    No-Name Slob Contributing Member Supporter Contributor

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    But like, what kind of thug? Thug just means "violent person."

    Is it a gang that mimics the Crips and Bloods?

    Is it a gang of thugs from America, The UK, the Middle East, etc.?
     
  5. Reilley Turner
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    Reilley Turner Active Member

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    In the story, this is a cruel, kidnapping, slaving kind of gang that is not afraid to harm their captives. An example would be they are not afraid of cutting off fingers, toes.

    Oh! I forgot to mention in the OP (sorry), these thugs are kind of, I think the term is, uneducated.
     
  6. No-Name Slob
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    No-Name Slob Contributing Member Supporter Contributor

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    Okay, so I'm picturing like ... a bunch of mobsters? Is that right?

    Where are they from? It matters greatly as far as how they would speak. If you're unsure, you should consider thinking about it!
     
  7. Reilley Turner
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    Reilley Turner Active Member

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    I don't want to reveal too much, but as it takes place in a fantasy world, the closest thing I could relate their background to is a slum.

    I kinda want to keep the details secret as I am planning on posting my progress here but if you want we could PM each other, that way I could divulge some more information so that you could help me further. But, and I'm not trying to be rude here, if i PM you, I want you to keep this secret. If I want to post more details, I will. Again, I'm not trying to be rude but I'm trying to explain how important it is to me that this remains a secret and that I will release more information at a later date.
     
  8. No-Name Slob
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    No-Name Slob Contributing Member Supporter Contributor

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    Gotcha'. I'd never want you to do anything you don't feel comfortable with. :)

    I'll leave you with this: think about who these people are, what region they are from, and hit the Googlez for examples of speech patterns from that particular region and class.
     
  9. Reilley Turner
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    Reilley Turner Active Member

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    Okay, thanks for the advice :D I will definitely give google a shot.
     
  10. Ussaid
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    Ussaid Member

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    If this is a fantasy word you can create your own style of thug language and change some words' pronunciation and weaken the grammar. People would take it as stereotypical thug language because really, that's what it is; speech containing weak grammar and mispronunciation.
     
  11. Reilley Turner
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    Reilley Turner Active Member

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    Ok, how should I start doing this though? Just keep track of the word, it's poor grammar version and keep adding words from there on?

    I mean, all I have is " 'ere " as the word " here ". Is this a good start?
     
  12. Ussaid
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    Base it on real language. I would have suggested you to watch Goodfellas but I think you're a teenager, so pass. Make the speech as simple as possible and simulated an accent of sorts, much like 'hood language and how the Italian mobsters speak in Goodfellas.

    As for the words, take a word and modify. Like how one would turn what's up to 'sup.
     
  13. Reilley Turner
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    Reilley Turner Active Member

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    I am a teenager, 18 in a few months in fact but anyway, thanks for the advice :)

    P.S. Why would you say I pass on watching Goodfellas? Is it rated M or higher?
     
  14. Ussaid
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    I think it is, but I have seen it and I am younger than you. Not the same case for everyone though, so I just opted to stay on the safe side. And yup, you have a good start in 'ere. Good luck!
     
  15. Aaron DC
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    Aaron DC Contributing Member

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    Are they educated formally?. Gangsters tend to have their own vernacular but what you're discussing here is laziness in a speech pattern - through learned behaviour. Their families would talk like this and that is where they learn to speak, so they are speaking like their families. It is not a gangster-specific anomaly.

    The logic being - gangsters come from poorer areas, less educated, more lax in their speech, etc.
     
  16. Aaron DC
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    Aaron DC Contributing Member

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    Watch this and by the end you will have stereotypical (British) gangsta speech down pat:
     
  17. Reilley Turner
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    Reilley Turner Active Member

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    I'm not going into their past at all, as most of the thugs are going to be killed off quickly anyway and the gang leader is formally educated, at least when compared to his thugs. How would you suggest I go about doing this? I want them to have improper grammar (so they sound uneducated), but I don't want them to seem like lazy speakers.

    If this helps, here's a description of the thugs I am planning to add, as well as the gang leader (all of the gang members below are cruel and merciless killers);
    1. Thug 1 - uneducated, slow minded, a "order taker", quick to judge if a conflict is won
    2. Thug 2 - Smarter then Thug 1, Quick minded, a "order taker", a "raid leader", quick to judge if a conflict is won or lost (will surrender then back stab the "winner")
    3. Thug 3 - Semi-formal education, Cunning, "a order giver", a "raid instructor", usually second or third in the chain of command.
    4. Gang leader - Formal Education, Cunning
     
  18. Aaron DC
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    Aaron DC Contributing Member

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    Apologies - the word lazy is not necessarily apt; the speech patterns are learned. I was trying to draw the distinction that it's not-gangster specific, rather environment specific.

    It's not unusual in gangster movies for the leader to speak quite well. Consider all the primary James Bond antagonists whose minions speak gangster-like (if at all) whilst the boss mob er character almost sounds like Bond.

    If they are being killed off quickly, does it really matter so much how they talk?

    Regardless, what you have started ('ere 'e is guvna!) is spot on, IMO.
     
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  19. Reilley Turner
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    Reilley Turner Active Member

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    They are just gonna have a few lines, but I want them to sound a certain way, if that makes any sense.

    Am I focusing too much on this?
     
  20. Aaron DC
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    Aaron DC Contributing Member

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    Definitely. You have the right idea. Replace all h's at the start of words with inverted commas. Remove any r's as the end of words.
     
  21. Stacy C
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    Stacy C Banned

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    Sorry, but you're still not giving us the information we need to answer your question. Surely you can see that the speech patterns of members of African-American gangs like the Crips and Bloods would be dramatically different from those of Hispanic gangs like MS-13 or members of the Italian Mafia.

    More to the point, it's extremely unlikely that you've come up with a plot line that is unique, so demanding that members here agree not to reveal your story is insulting, at best. No one here wants to steal your story.
     
  22. Reilley Turner
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    Reilley Turner Active Member

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    Sorry, I didn't mean to insult you, or anyone else. It's just ever since I was young, I have been overprotective of my belongings. I now realize my mistake and will avoid repeating it in the future. Again, I am sorry for offending you, or anyone else, as it was unintentional and will never happen again.
     
  23. live2write
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    You can always describe a thug as saying they are a *insert group name* thug. They do not have to have a specific language or accent. The reader will interpret the accent from experience. Personally I think of New York accents because of where I grew up. You can mistype words to give a hint but if you are going to describe a thug. You can at least tell the reader they are a thug but give some description of what they do, dress and act like. A thug is primarily described as a degenerate that does unconventional things to either get by or do for the group/Family. You can write it as an attitude or a lifestyle.
     
  24. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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  25. Aaron DC
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    Aaron DC Contributing Member

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    As a new author, I understand your request completely. I personally do not find it insulting that you wish to keep your idea / plot line / what have you to yourself. You only need to read any new entrepreneur story anywhere to find NDA requests flying like locusts on a hot, summer's day in the countryside. A very normal thing indeed.

    I'm not saying the secrecy is necessary, the best way to go about it or what have you, but wish to balance the first quote with some empathy. Keep going mate. :agreed:
     

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