To Believe or not to believe

Five? Rome recognized four. What's the fifth?

 

Not complex characters, relatable characters that aren't flat. If you want an action-driven story, read The Hunt for Red October, or Hunger Games. Neither one is especially well written or will ever rank with The Great Gatsby in literary circles. Both of them however have characters that grow in the story - or at least, more and more of their character is revealed as the story goes on.

You really only have two choices, either have cardboard cutouts cliche they're way through action scenes (since there's little character development, there's little that they can do that wouldn't be cliche), or give them a depth and then develop them so that the reader can connect with the character and follow him/her as that person makes decisions.

Example: whether you liked the story or not, there was one scene in the Twilight series that shocked those following the books. It's when Edward offered to allow Bella and Jacob to have children together, if only she'd abort the child that was growing in her at that point (and killing her). If the characters were flat, then it's little more than an open marriage. But since they weren't, the statement becomes a single point of reference for how deeply devoted he is to saving her life (a theme throughout the books). The other issue here is that even though it feels like it came completely out of left field, the reader can feel the desperation and lengths Edward is willing to go to save his wife. It also becomes the fulcrum that begins a transformation of Edward and Jacob's relationship.

None of that would be possible with flat characters. Again, whether you like the series or not, it's the point I'm getting at. Give your characters depth and your readers will care a whole lot more about the action.

 

I still don't give a damn about Twilight. And Odiously Bella will never leave Edward because she loves him too much.

So even if what the characters do that sound stupid or lame, it will make them believable and caring to the readers? I am deeply sure that all it takes is good explanation to make your characters believable.

 

Which means you missed my entire point. Never mind.

 

If it is also the characters' emotion that attracts the readers, then there is more than explanation.

 

Think about this simply. Readers like characters who seem real. These characters are often deliberately crafted for the story. Part of what makes a person feel real is what they feel, but that isn't their entire being. To make good characters, and to have readers relate/sympathize with them, act as if you were introducing a real person to them. This isn't easy. I probably can't do it yet. But when I read great characters, I don't think: WOW! That guy's emotions attract me!

A good character feels like a person. In the beginning, you just know generalities about them, but as your adventures together continue, you learn more and more about them (usually when it's relevant: you find out what kind of wine your friend likes when you visit a winery).

To pull this off, I feel like one has to know a great deal about people, and it doesn't hurt to develop multiple-personality disorder (if only).

 

Great point! Thanks for that.

 

It can be hard to make characters act like real people if they are non human in a realistic way. Nobody knows how an alien would act like. Robots can either act like real people or just follow orders based on their programming.

I also think that Disney's talking animals are too human. How would a real talking animal behave and speak to people?

 

A key element of successful fiction is characters the reader can relate to. No matter how alien your characters are, you have to give them human characteristics for the reader to relate to.

Fiction is a way of presenting the reader with insights into the human condition.

 

Honestly, all your threads end up sounding repetitive and redundant. I don't understand how many times people have to reinforce this for it to not fly completely over your head.

Yes, it would be interesting to see a talking animal behave and speak to people in a completely animalistic way, unfiltered through human interpretation. However, no one can possibly know what that would be like. We can only imagine and even in our imaginations, we'd be attaching human characteristics to them, so to try and do what you're proposing would be humanly impossible.

Attempting it, you would either end up attaching some human characteristics to it anyway, or turn it into something completely alien for your audience to comprehend. If Bambi was simply characterised like an animal and couldn't express any emotions familiar to humans, we'd have seen 90 minutes of a fucking deer licking moss off a rock. But because he's characterised like a human we can empathise/sympathise with him when his mother is killed or the fact that he grew up in the absence of a father.

It is difficult to make animal characters and inanimate objects act human, but that's your job as a writer. Not to mention it would be significantly harder to do the exact opposite.

 

What he said.

And may i point out Miles that when someone asks a question, the question mark implies he wants an answer. What you do in your threads is give a statement and stick a question mark at the end of the sentence to make it seem like a question. You don't care about the answers and you don't care about advice. You just want someone to agree with your statement. It is irritating to a degree.

 

I would imagine a true talking animal as an ignoring creature who keeps asking for food; think of a parrot bird. "Feed me! Feed me!" "Mall man! Mall man!" "Catch bad guy! Catch bad!" If the talking animal was human, then it is believable how the animal will act like a human. But I don't believe that talking animals can act human in real life. Only in bull!@#$ fantasy worlds they can do that.

If we meet aliens who don't act human, would we treat them like animals? That sounds racist, including to non human characters who have no human traits. And then the alien would kick our ass, maybe enslave us, and treat us like animals. Take that!

I am working on a short story, called War Beast, where the animal warriors are descendent of humans who were fused by animals during a post apocalyptic event. Some of them kept their humanity, while others embrace their savarge beast side. That is believable. If they were animals who mutated into humanoids, I wouldn't make them too human.

 

Okay, you've lost me.

 

The effort required to make some sense of what you actually want to say in your arguments starts to remind me of my college math classes more and more.
Not one single person said you need to make EVERY CHARACTER human. What everyone told you is that characters need to have HUMAN QUALITIES. These qualities are not necessarily exclusive to humans. For example you may write a story about a parrot that never once speaks but who has a dream, an ambition or a purpose and decides to pursue it.
An extraterrestrial creature does not need to be exactly like a human. But if it is going to be your main character then it must have human qualities, otherwise not one reader will care about that character.
You probably mean an apocalyptic event or a post-apocalyptic world. A post-apocalyptic event is any event that happens after an apocalyptic one, which is pretty much every event.
And you are right, that premise sounds believable enough. But it still is irrelevant to any of the topics discussed in this thread. Also this is the story of a manga series whose title i can't recall right now. If I find it later I will send you a link to get some ideas if you want to.

 

Okay, I get it; human qualities. And that also deals with motivation, desires, and explaination. If an animal doesn't have these princaples, then it will only eat grass or kill other animals. It will be lazy, and not giving a damn but to its own survival. It would be a boring character.

If there is a manga that sounds similar to War Beast, then show me please.

 

A writer without interest or sympathy for the foibles of his fellow man is not conceivable as a writer. --Joseph Conrad

 

Believable characters, and relatable characters. Maybe those are the types of characters that I am sick of.

 

Really? Are you sick of reading fiction?

What characters in literature are you not sick of? I don't mean in comic books or anime; I mean in mainstream literature, the kind of literature we all might be reasonably familiar with, or at least have heard of. Can you think of anyone in classical mythology you like? Anyone in classic movies or TV? Anyone in books people might have had to read in high school? Characters in fairy tales?

Give us some examples. My guess is that, even if you can list a few, you'll find that they are well-drawn characters, even if they're evil. If you can't, it might be because the vast majority of people throughout history don't like the kind of characters you do, so nobody writes about them. You might be an outlier - the only guy in the world who doesn't want what everyone else wants; the only guy in the world who doesn't want to relate to the characters he reads about.

Good luck!

 

I think it's more likely that Miles just hasn't read enough fiction. He seems to point toward other genres for examples. One might be able to tolerate a unrealistic character when absorbed in the awesome spectacle, but that just doesn't work on the page -- no matter how good you imagery is.

 

I just want to read a book where nobody gives a damn. Right now I am full of negative thoughts about what makes a good book and what doesn't.

 

I'm serious. You need to stop worrying about whether or not you can or cannot write a book in a certain way. Asking for permission is not how you write a good novel. If you are looking for something specific in a novel, then write that novel. Don't worry about how someone else perceives your ideas. Just write the damn book.

 

Fine.

 

The characters have to be believable to entertain and amaze all kinds of readers, even if the characters and the plot are not adapted from a true life story and the setting is for reel. If you're meant to create a bunch of cartoon characters and put them together in one book, then you're targeting younger readers' interests.

 

There is an essential click of understanding that goes with reading that we take pleasure from. Without sense, there can be no understanding. Ergo, sense is essential.

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2006-06/uosc-fk062006.php