To prologue or not to prologue?

I think you might want to ask @EdFromNY about this particular editor, though. But I guess I'm not going to ever convince you that prologues are not only okay, but are actually helpful in some instances—and that the 'industry' doesn't hate good ones.

 

The first part, I don't need convincing - I'm not a prologue hater.
The second - no, you won't convince me that they're popular in the industry in general, because it's clearly untrue.

 

My own experience is that the "industry" does not hold a monolithic opinion on prologues. In my own case, the editor in question was recommended to me by a successful, published writer who had also used her services, and her suggestion for the prologue solved a significant problem with my ms (whether that solution will be enough to secure publication remains to be seen). I've heard agents at writers' conferences rant against prologues, and yet I still see good novels being published by major houses that have them. One agent I recently heard speak stated, "Do not use a prologue!" Then she added, "But if you do, don't call it a prologue." This, to me, is the height of silliness, but when I submitted my revised ms to her, I dutifully deleted the word "Prologue" from the top of the first page. When in Rome...

 

I'd argue it depends on the genre. Considering Tolkien and Martin, the fantasy genre seems fine with them.

 

Precisely--so what your hired editor says doesn't say anything about the industry in general (I know it wasn't you who made that claim!)

I have no desire to get into another prologue debate, so I'll just repeat my stance and then leave you all to it: we do know that plenty of people (agents, editors AND readers) hate prologues with a passion, and nobody requires them. The logical conclusion, for me, is to avoid them in my writing, which isn't at all difficult. Win/win for me.

 

To continue to beat this dead horse, I can see where a prologue is useful to capture "historical" information for a story since writing it in the main body might seem forced, but I guess for a true Word Smith it can be done easily enough. Personally I like prologues but I also understand that many people skip them when reading a book so if the detail is critical a main part of the story might be lost to the reader.

I will just include the prologue and epilogue in the middle of my story and call it a remissionlogue! Please don't take me seriously.

 

Wow, people are rather up in arms about this, aren't they?

I don't think I've ever written a prologue (with the exception of a parody of another work that had one, and I was mirroring that work closely), but I've only ever loved them in most the works that had them that I can recall. But then I loved those works in total.

To me if it's necessary, it's there and it's readable. I would never skip it.

If the prologue is an unmitigated disaster, I wouldn't skip the prologue--I would skip the whole book.

I would treat it the same way I treat chapter one--or any subsequent chapter.

If it's poorly handled or terribly written, I don't have the patience for any of the rest of the writing. Same with chapter one.

I feel like it just comes down to utility & skill:

If a story doesn't need it, of course it should be nixed. But if it does, then it absolutely should be there.

If it's poorly written or handled, that's reflective of the author's failings and I dismiss it or endure it no differently than anything else written badly, regardless of if it's a prologue or a chapter.

 

But then how do you keep it from feeling forced in the prologue? A prologue isn't an excuse for writing that is too boring/forced/otherwise flawed to have in the main part of the book. If it's going to be there, it needs to be just as engaging as the rest.

It also needs to refrain from "stealing" from the rest, which is my problem with prologues that have scenes with characters that never appear again. If I read a prologue about Joe The Future King and some fascinating interaction with his father that explains what motivated him to be king, and then the book starts with Joe IV, a century after Joe conquered the continent and then died, then I'm going to be cranky and let down; I invested in Joe and now I've lost him forever.

I'm sure that a good prologue is possible. I've mentioned the prologue to In This House of Brede more than once. But the examples that I've actually seen are few and far between, and examples of prologues that I really felt SHOULD be called "prologue" (I think that the Brede one is Chapter One) are even thinner. Well, they're zero. I'm sure that one exists, but I haven't met it yet.

 

Choices, choices, choices....

One thing I think we all need to keep in mind is that - from more than one angle - no one can force anyone else to engage or humor any of our choices.

If we include a prologue, we know for a fact that we weed out certain readers. We cannot force them to read. We must decide if this loss matters to us.
If we include a needful glossary, we know for a fact that we weed out certain readers. We cannot force them to read. We must decide if this loss matters to us.
If we include sex, we know for a fact that we weed out certain readers. We cannot force them to read. We must decide if this loss matters to us.
If we include drugs, we know for a fact that we weed out certain readers. We cannot force them to read. We must decide if this loss matters to us.
If we include violence, we know for a fact that we weed out certain readers. We cannot force them to read. We must decide if this loss matters to us.

The only thing worth discussing, imho, is how do we come to be at peace with the idea that a thing we include will filter out certain readers.

 

Very well put Wreybies. I need to find the answer for myself, and not go hide in a cupboard when I have finished somehow.

 

... Crap.

 

Yep, we are all sitting in the same boat. *starts rocking it*. I hope you like Rock music

 

Exactly. My stories tend to have quite a bit of sex. No fade to black. No ending the scene with the bedroom door closing and we just assume. Nope. None of that. And I know this automatically excludes a certain kind of reader who just doesn't think sex belongs in a novel. I can go back and forth all day with that reader, but in the end, there's no way for me to force his/her hand. I just have to be at peace with the idea that s/he will never read my story.

 

Whatever you write, something will be included that will filter out certain readers. Your book won't appeal to everyone. I absolutely agree with you regarding the prologue and glossary (I was going to include a glossary of the Italian language I used in my first fiction until I realised that reading the glossary would tell a lot of the story!) but ....

the other stuff (in my opinion) has less chance of putting some readers off and this is because more often than not, sex, drugs, violence, whatever, won't all turn up on the first page. It will appear maybe a couple of chapters in. By this time, the reader will have invested a certain amount of time, emotion and energy into reading your book. While some readers will still put the book down (depending on what they came across that put them off) others will weigh up what they've invested and carry on reading. And others will carry on reading just because they *have to know the ending*.

So for me, it comes down to personal choice. If you want a prologue, have one. And if you don't, then don't. But as it's your choice, then afford other authors that personal choice too.

Personally, I love them and I have them - the only thing which would make me reconsider, would be if a large publishing house offered me a contract but only if my books were to lose their prologues. But even then, I would probably try and change the publisher's mind, or rename the prologue.

 

I like the way this thread is going.

1) Write your own story your own way. Accept that some readers (including some agents and publishers) aren't going to like it.

2) Find out what your chosen 'market' likes, and write within their specifications. And accept that some readers (including some agents and publishers) don't like those kinds of stories.

You can't please everybody. So do what you want. Writing is a very personal activity. Hamstringing yourself with worry about whether you're going to be universally loved is a waste of your writing time. Go for it. Make your mark.

 

I believe it's Murphy's Fourth Law that states: If you try to please everybody, somebody won't like it.

 

Somebody will be bound to tell you that you shouldn't even try!

 

When was the last time you read a prologue or preface? I think most readers may skip this part anyway. Only put it if people wouldn't understand the plot without it.

 

Last time? Christina Baker Kline's The Orphan Train.

Based upon what evidence?

 

I don't have any facts but my opinion is that in a fast world, people skip the additional parts of a book that's why I think that unless the reader would not understand the plot without it, it's a bit surplus to requirement. It would be the editors decision anyway ultimately.

 

My question is ...how do you know before you start reading what is necessary to understand the plot? For heaven's sake. Trust the author. If they put it there, and it got published, it is necessary to the plot.

If you just want to know the plot and don't want to bother actually reading what the author wrote, there are always Cliff's Notes.

I honestly don't understand this mindset. I really don't.

 

...indicative of nothing other than what you, yourself, would do. So, instead of "I think most readers would skip this part", how about the more honest, "I would skip this part"?

 

For me, it depends what the prologue consists of. If it's a chance for the author to waffle about how she/she came up with the story, I skip it. If it's the author telling me the technical side of his story, (like how close we are to perfecting robots when the story was written in 1974) then I skip it. If it's part of the actual story, then I read it.

Personally speaking, I love writing prologues!

 

It's the duty of the protagonist to describe the world to the reader and to put it in context. Unless the story is written from multiple viewpoints like ASoIaF, there's no reason to provide some distracting text in the beginning. It's just demanding that people who don't yet have any stake in the story care about it.

 

I don't see the problem with having two prologues if it makes sense to your story. As for what to make the Prologue, I guess it all depends on what you are trying to write about. I am writing about a soldier going rogue so my prologue is a snipit of when he turns.