To what extent must a plot be present?

Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by Dannabis, Jan 11, 2013.

  1. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    if you're not writing it as fiction, then it's a straight 'biography'...

    so, am i correct in saying you're writing it in first person, as his brother ?
     
  2. aClem

    aClem Active Member

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    Yes, it is written first person, and I am the narrator. In one of his "clean" phases I tried to talk him into doing it, as I thought it would be therapeutic and very compelling, but he wasn't interested. The idea was nothing he wanted anything to do with. Exploring his mindset is part of what i hope to do, though more by illustrative incidents than my speculative analysis.
     
  3. TLK

    TLK Active Member

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    This is an interesting question.

    I'd say there has to be some sort of plot, something has to happen at some point in the story. It's just that the reader doesn't have to know what may happen.

    For example, in most books you'll read, you'll know what the characters are trying to do, i.e. they need to save the world. As a reader, you don't know if or how they will/won't accomplish the task, which is where the enjoyment comes from, but you will know that, by the end of the book, they will have accomplished or failed in the task which has been evident from the outset.

    Other books don't have a plot from the start, in that you don't know what may happen at the end of the book because, well, it could be anything. Take "To Kill a Mockingbird" for example. At first it seems to be a story of Scout's life and, presumably, how he grows up. But then you find out about Tom and the events surrounding him, which becomes "the plot". Will Atticus prove him innocent or not? That's the "plot question". Although you don't know whether he will or not, you know that that question is the one which the progression of the story will answer.
     
  4. lex

    lex Member

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    Immediate Action isn't a biography: it's a memoir (at least, that's how it's being marketed by its publisher), which was of course publishable because of McNab's huge fame/popularity from his other books.

    As you describe it, what you're writing is also a memoir.

    Certainly sounds like a memoir.

    If you agree with the way Cogito has characterized "storyline" and "plot" above (which I think I do, myself), then it's still debatable the extent to which what you might produce will revolve around plot, per se. With memoir, it varies. Some are "just memoir"; others are "selected memories to fit an overall theme". (I imagine that if your brother isn't well-known enough for you to have this published and appealing to readers on the strength of his already existing fame, it will perhaps be intended more as the latter?)

    I haven't got a brother (and can therefore only theorize) but that would put me off ...
     
  5. Leigh Silvester

    Leigh Silvester Member

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    Depends on how you consider plot.
    It is almost impossible to write without creating plot in some form or other. This arises out of the conscious decision of the author to order events in a particular way.
    Even Andy McNab will have made decisions to structure sections in a particular way that present what are possibly complex situations into presentable narrative. In addition he will have made decisions to omit particular events and episodes, In short he has created plot, although this might be limited to short sections and not extend across the whole book.
    The same can be said of biographies, which are still works of fiction in most cases.
     
  6. aClem

    aClem Active Member

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    If it's a memoir, then it's a memoir. But it isn't a memoir in the sense that I am the subject, although as I've said, I can't keep myself out of the book. I simply hope to avoid self indulgence. The plot is a long drawn out descent from a "normal" middle class childhood in California into addiction and all the horrors he endured to obey his master, heroin. It will require some skill which I may or may not possess to keep the "plot" moving forward at an acceptable pace and not leave gaping holes in the story, or have long stretches that are devoid of relevance to the theme. But even if it only sells 3 copies I feel the urge to write the story.
     
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  7. Leigh Silvester

    Leigh Silvester Member

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    A tough challenge to create something along these lines and to make it something that anyone else would want to read.
    I would suggest that it would need a motif or theme that needs to be referred back to regularly in order to gauge the depth of the ascent. Possibly the state of relationships with family or friends. In an artistic vein there may be some external totem that can fulfill the same role.
     
  8. aClem

    aClem Active Member

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    Leigh, could you give me an example of what you mean by "external totem?" Is there a well known example you could point me to? Thanks.
     
  9. Leigh Silvester

    Leigh Silvester Member

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    Just a minor cliché alert.
    I appreciate that sometimes we condense our thoughts when posting in places such as this.
    However your posting about someone whose master was heroin set alarm bells ringing.
    Your phasing sounded like something from a public information announcement.

    This may be unfair and I apologise if this wasn't your intent.

    If heroin is anything, it is a malevolent insidious seductor offerting to simplify life.
     
  10. Leigh Silvester

    Leigh Silvester Member

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    I was thinking in terms of some external event or development occurring near your protagonist against which they could compare their state of being.
    This could be anything as simple as comparing where they are at to the development of a spiders web (it can have its' ups and downs), the building of a new school or office, perhaps the life cycle of a birds nest.
    Things that are undergoing a process of change, against which your protagonist can judge how they have changed.

    I'm not sure I have articulated this very well.
     
  11. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    thinking about this a bit more, eclem's book seems to actually be a memoir/biography hybrid of sorts, since he's writing about his brother's life [biography], but in first person, including, i assume, events he took part in or witnessed [memoir]... don't know if there's an actual label for such a blend...

    anyone know of one?... or examples of published books that do the same?
     
  12. lex

    lex Member

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    I see ... excuse me if I misunderstood. I took him as meaning that he was writing about his brother's life, in the first person, the first person being himself. Not writing about his brother's life in the first person, the first person being his brother. Even now that you've said this, and I've looked again, I still can't see any suggestion in his posts of the "first person" being his brother.

    Maybe I misunderstood completely, but that was of course why I said that what he's proposing to write is simply "memoir" rather than "biography".
     
  13. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    lexx...

    as i understand it and referred to above, he is writing as himself, the brother of the subject of the 'biography'... which is why it's a 'biography' and not an 'autobiography' in which he'd be writing 'as' the brother...

    but, since he'd be writing about his interactions with and feelings about his brother, it is also a sort of 'memoir'...

    i hope that clears up any confusion...
     
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