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Is this a good idea?

  1. Yes (please reply why)

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  2. No (how come?)

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  3. Yeah- try this (reply below)

    3 vote(s)
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  4. No, but do this (below yay)

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  1. Yume No Okami
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    Yume No Okami Member

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    Touchy Topic: Female on Male Rape

    Discussion in 'Research' started by Yume No Okami, Mar 17, 2015.

    I was thinking the male anti-villain/right hand of the Big Bad could have it in his character arc. (I'll try to put all relevant info in the first post. (And I'm in Eastern Standard Time, so I'm not likely to reply right after I post this because it's 10:37 here.)

    His rapist would be introduced as his dominatrix girlfriend (not banging BSDM- this situation just isn't Safe, Sane and Consensual), and it would be revealed as the story progresses that he hates her and that she forced him into it via Leonine Contract. She threatens to turn over his (good) brother to their (evil) dad, and he's forced into it. He breaks it off (and kills her- anti-villain) when his brother finds his True Companions, and anything she does or tells others to do is null when facing more than one or two people. (Like, 10+ a school of magic kids)

    Probably Important Stuff
    • The brothers are demons, their dad is Satan, and the rapist would be a succubus.
    • He eventually tricks her into thinking that he loves her by acting the part- she has looser morals though, and would pull out the blackmail (is that what it's called?) anyway if she needed.
    • He represents the sin of greed, but by the story's close he should be just within the borders of sin/virtue.
    • It's treated as horrible as it should be.
    • He becomes leader of the demons after the main arc ends, and he later has prejudice against the lust based demons. This'll lead to complications.
    • She's a dominatrix and forces bondage.
    • He's actually ok with bondage. (gf after main plot is actually kinda sub and they end up getting a bit confused because neither is dom when it comes to it)
    • The character needs to function as the "relationship" is happening.
    • Said "relationship" lasts for ~400 years. (Magic!)
    • The story is about subverting expectations and first impressions and also is a Deconstructor Fleet.
    • Wanna keep the story PG-13.
    Few questions: Is this too dark for a side arc? This would, probably be the darkest thing in the story by a long shot. Should I even bother, or would it be too controversial? How would he react? All I have is the character taking blows to his pride but I don't know the actual protocol for what would actually happen in a scenario like this (minus the magic stuff because irl isn't magic of course).
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  2. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    I see no reason not to use it in the story you are describing: His "rapist would be introduced as his dominatrix girlfriend". It's hard to see that as rape though.
     
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  3. Wyr
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    Wyr Active Member

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    I don't see the topic itself as bad, but you are planning on putting bondage and rape in a story you envision as PG-13? Am I a huge prude or do these themes seem inappropriate for that age bracket to anyone else?

    In my opinion I would not introduce or ever describe her as his girlfriend unless he is lying about it to appease her, and even then I would make it clear what he was doing. I think it would make it less confusing. And, frankly, I have trouble picturing a "lust demon" as being terribly interested in boyfriend-girlfriend relationships so much as having someone at her beck and call who she can bang whenever she wants. Then again, it's your story so maybe it works.
     
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  4. ChickenFreak
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    ChickenFreak Contributing Member Contributor

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    I agree that "girlfriend" is an odd word to use for this situation. I'm confused about a rapist having "looser morals"--a rapist is a level of evil far, far beyond "loose" morals. I'm also getting lost in all the detail that you're presenting and am not at all clear as to what's going on.
     
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  5. Mckk
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    Mckk Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    I'm with Chicken here - I don't understand the detail you've given. What?

    As for the theme of male rape perpetrated by a female, that's fine. However, PG-13 it is not.

    From your post, you sound pretty clueless about the topic of rape in general. If you're going to approach a topic like this, you need better understanding and research. If you were hoping to portray this as something realistic and actually deal with the character's reactions and aftermath etc, then you absolutely need to research. I would not approach this topic without the research if it's in any way a significant character arc, which it sounds like it is and it's not just simple backstory.

    Heads up, rape isn't just about being penetrated, though I believe that might still be the official definition recognised in most law (which is why male rape is under-reported/documented). Rape surveys ask the wrong questions when it comes to male rape and end up missing a great number of victims. Male rape includes being forced to penetrate something.

    Off topic, but I'm curious. I do wonder... if a man has sex with a woman in order to punish her - but the sex is consensual - while officially that would not be rape, what psychological impact would it have on an otherwise normal, perhaps even good man? Would he feel as though he raped her? Would the woman feel raped, despite it being consensual, because she could feel the energy/intention of the man?
     
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  6. Chinspinner
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    Chinspinner Contributing Member Contributor

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    Sex to punish? Can't say that is a particular kink of mine, I think I'd have trouble getting it up. Or do you just mean role-playing?

    What exactly do you mean?

    That was @Mckk by the way, not the OP.
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
  7. Yume No Okami
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    Yume No Okami Member

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    Oh god what did I write last night

    Ok, ok...
    She would be introduced to the readers as that, but as the character arc goes on it's revealed she's really not.
    You're not a prude- My IQ drops when I'm tired. :p The sex would never really be shown- I have little to no desire to draw or write about that... Wait- I'm confusing Japan's idea of PG-13 to the US'... Too much anime. Ok, so it probably be better for less emotional attachments- thanks. (Wondering if I should just stop here. -_-)
    I was very tired and I threw it all at you guys, sorry... Yeah she's a total b****- evil evil evil...
    I don't understand rape that much, yeah, and I know that- technically a non consensual kiss is rape. All I really know is that it's a non consensual sexual action and that it's more about exertion of power than attraction.

    You know what- if I have an idea that seems better the more tired I get, I should drop it. Thanks anyways, guys! ...sorry for wasting your time...
     
  8. KaTrian
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    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Staff Supporter Contributor

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    So does the woman coerce/blackmail the man into having sex with her? He wouldn't otherwise?

    Either way, go for it, if you find yourself interested in the topic. Women can rape men, or make them forcibly perform sexual services to them, although men might deal with it a bit differently in comparison to women, and of course, the character's personality matters. Girlfriends, wives, husbands, and boyfriends can rape and sexually abuse/assault (like coerce another person into sexual acts) their significant others. This shit happens, and yeah, it can get controversial, but if it's what you want to do, that's your vision, I'd suggest you stick to your guns and write it.
     
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  9. cutecat22
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    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    Non-consentual kiss is NOT rape! (It may be assualt/sexual assult but it is not rape!)

    Rape is non-consentual INTERCOURSE.

    Whichever way you decide to go, good on you for exploring a taboo subject BUT, if you are going to do it right, you need to do mountains of research on the subject AND make your story for 18+ readers only. (or at the very least, the age of consent for the country the book is to be sold). IMHO, anything that deals with a sexual act, BDSM, or any fetish, should be classed as 18+

    Below info taken from the Santa Monica Rape Treatment Center Website

    Definitions
    [​IMG]



    Although the legal definition of rape varies from state to state, rape is generally defined as forced or nonconsensual sexual intercourse. Rape may be accomplished by fear, threats of harm, and/or actual physical force. Rape may also include situations in which penetration is accomplished when the victim is unable to give consent, or is prevented from resisting, due to being intoxicated, drugged, unconscious, or asleep.

    Sexual assault is a broader term than rape. It includes various types of unwanted sexual touching or penetration without consent, such as forced sodomy (anal intercourse), forced oral copulation (oral-genital contact), rape by a foreign object (including a finger), and sexual battery (the unwanted touching of an intimate part of another person for the purpose of sexual arousal).

    The term "drug-facilitated sexual assault" is generally used to define situations in which victims are subjected to nonconsensual sexual acts while they are incapacitated or unconscious due to the effects of alcohol and/or other drugs and are therefore, prevented from resisting and/or are unable to give consent.
     
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  10. Mckk
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    Mckk Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    And the bolded parts are the problems with the legal or official definition of rape and why so many male rape victims go unnoticed. By the above definition, a man technically cannot be raped, because the above definition defines rape very definitively as penetration - but only penetration through the vagina.

    I know you're just quoting from a source, so this isn't directed at you. But seriously, this makes my blood boil. It's fucking nonsense.
     
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  11. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    It's also a bit weird that "rape by a foreign object" is considered sexual assault, not rape... I mean, when you use the word "rape" as part of your description, doesn't that suggest that the act is rape?!?
     
  12. cutecat22
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    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    I agree.

    It's aimed towards the rape of women, not men. Unless, (as vagina is never actually mentioned) for male rape to be considered as rape, a man must suffer non-consensual anal penetration.

    But where the OP is coming from (or anyone who wants to include any type of rape in their writing), they first need to do lots of research into what constitute rape for the character who suffers it.

    There are enough problems in this world with people crying wolf where rape is concerned (I know, before you all shout at me, I know a lot of men are led on) but to confuse rape with something that is not classed as rape, is just going to make matters a lot worse.

    If a man comes up to me in a bar, asks for a kiss, and I say "no way" and he grabs me and kisses me anyway, that is assault. Depending where his hands go, it could be classed as sexual assault, but definitely not rape.

    Just the same as, if I go up to a man, grab his balls (fully clothed) and said "oh, nice package!" it's sexual assault, not rape.
     
  13. cutecat22
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    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    Hard to believe, but there are so many different scenarios to any kind of assault. Sexual or otherwise. Us humans are the most inhuman species I know.
     
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  14. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    Yeah, but THEY'RE using the word rape to describe something that they then say isn't rape? WTF?
     
  15. cutecat22
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    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    Who is?
     
  16. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    The people you quoted in your post.
     
  17. cutecat22
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    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    Ah, the Rape Treatment Center.

    Yes, I guess they deal mainly with women.

    I pasted that as I was trying to get across the point to the OP that a non-consensual kiss, is not rape, that rape is classed as non-consensual intercourse.
     
  18. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    Well, even a woman could be penetrated by something that isn't a penis. And according to the rape crisis centre, RAPE with a foreign object isn't RAPE. I'm not arguing the merits of the case or anything larger, just pointing out that their wording is stupid. They should have said "penetration" with a foreign object, or whatever other term they wanted, but using the word rape in that context was just stupid.
     
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  19. Chinspinner
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    Chinspinner Contributing Member Contributor

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    It is just law speak, I'd imagine "rape" had the required definition already enshrined in statute.
     
  20. Mckk
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    Mckk Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Nope - the source you quoted would see anal penetration as "forced sodomy" which falls under "sexual assault" in their books (I bolded that part). That's why I said they seem to think rape is only penetration through a vagina specifically. Because what other types of penetration are there? Oral sex was covered under "forced oral copulation" which was still under "sexual assault" according to them.

    Then there's being forced to penetrate, which doesn't even get defined under "sexual assault" - it's as if it's nonexistent! So men who are forced to penetrate an object or a woman wouldn't even be classified as having be assaulted - it's just nothing. Like nothing fucking happened.

    You say "they" (the Rape Treatment Centre) deal mainly with women - but it's a trend in rape crisis centres in general. I've seen at least 3 different rape crisis centre websites whose logos include the female symbol. Once more, that makes my blood boil. How's a man supposed to come forward when the frigging rape crisis help centre includes the female symbol in their logo? It pretty much screams: "Hey! Rape only happens to women! Oh you're a man... ah well. Too bad, eh? It probably didn't even happen because it's so rare anyway!" How's a man supposed to still feel like a man having to come forward to a rape crisis centre that tells them only women get raped? I actually wrote an email to one of them once complaining - got the standard response of, "Oh the stats say more women get raped than men so it's all okay!"
     
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2015
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  21. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    That's kind of my point, though... you can't use the word as BOTH a legal term and a general descriptor, not in the same damn paragraph. It's just sloppy.

    And Mckk - want something else to be mad about? According to the California penal code:

    261. (a) Rape is an act of sexual intercourse accomplished with a person not the spouse of the perpetrator​

    Now, there's a separate section for rape by spouses, so it's not like they're totally denying that it could happen, but, still... why separate sections?!?

    There are also two separate sections dealing with forcing women (specifically women, men not mentioned) to get married, and with enticing any unmarried and previously chaste female into a "house of ill fame"

    And another section for men forcing their wives into prostitution, but no mention of the possibility of the reverse

    Where are the men's rights assholes (I mean, activists) when you need them?
     
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  22. cutecat22
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    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    They mention penetration, but not exclusively, by penis.
     
  23. Mckk
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    Mckk Moderator Staff Supporter Contributor

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    @BayView - :( I wonder what one could do to help... The laws on rape suck. It's pretty wanting even for female rape and for male rape the provision is essentially nonexistent! This is making me actually want to write something on female on male rape.
     
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  24. Chinspinner
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    Chinspinner Contributing Member Contributor

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    I read an article a couple of years back. Basically a woman had won some lottery and her face appeared in the papers. Some people recognized her as the perpetrator of a crime back in the 70's. It turns out she had some infatuation with a fella, drugged him, kidnapped him, raped him.

    The interesting part was that when he went to the police he was turned away with the apologetic reason that there was no prosecutable crime (how, I do not know, there seem to be several crimes in my book), and she went free (not for lack of evidence). Admittedly it was the 70's and I am sure things have changed... maybe.

    Anecdotally it is suspected that male rape (by a man or woman) is a far more common (and under-reported) occurrence than figures would suggest. As such it seems a little surprising to me that rape crisis centres would not be more inclined to tackle this issue.
     
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  25. cutecat22
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    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    261. (a) Rape is an act of sexual intercourse accomplished with a person not the spouse of the perpetrator

    So this is saying that you can pretty much force your wife/husband in the bedroom and it wouldn't be rape.

    This is also where things get difficult, (b) if you are in a sub/dom relationship is it still OK? maybe tuesdays and thursdays can be sex night regardless of whether or not you have a headache ...

    Some women will happily give up their bodies to do the "wifely duties" while some women/men enjoy what can only be described as 'forced sex'.

    But who actually decides what is right and what is wrong?
     

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