1. Imaginarily
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    Imaginarily Disparu en Mer Contributor

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    Suggestion Tracking critiques you make

    Discussion in 'Support & Feedback' started by Imaginarily, Oct 28, 2015.

    Ok, so, we already have the feature that tracks our own Workshop Entries in our profiles -- is it possible to track which Workshop threads we've critiqued? I think it'd be a really convenient way to make sure we're abiding by the 2-for-1 rule.

    (Posting this because I had to scour all my content to find Workshop entries I had given critique on, and was mildly inconvenienced by it.)

    o_O
     
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  2. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    I agree with you that it would be plenty nice to have the software give a list of threads within that specific subforum (Writing Workshop), at a glance and at a simple click. It would make mod life a lot easier since it falls to the mods to enforce the rule in question.

    What I do is the following, and this is something any member can do. It's a PITA, but it does give the information.

    Go to the search function and click "More" (Advanced Search)

    When the next page pops up, leave Keywords empty, do not click "search titles only", enter your member name in the Posted by Member: box, leave Newer Than: empty, and in the Search in Forums:, scroll down to The Writing Workshop and also check the Search child forums as well box.
     
  3. Daniel
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    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors. Founder Staff Contributor

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    @Imaginarily, you asking for the ability to see list of all Workshop threads you've critiqued, or a simple interface that displays the number of critiques in relation to the number of threads you've created? The later being a margin or ratio so you know how many new threads you can create in the Workshop based upon the number of critiques given - essentially, how many credits you've earned.

    The first would be easy to implement if it was simply another tab in the profile. @Wreybies' method also works. The later is more difficult to implement as we'd have to hire a coder, but it can be done. I think it's a no-brainer and I wish I had it implemented when the software was designed.

    Is this not auto-enforced by the software, or was this posted when we had a problem with the software operating correctly?
     
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  4. Lifeline
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    Lifeline The Dark - not in Wonderland Supporter Contributor

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    Uhm, it might be more difficult than that.

    I am not a regular critiquer in the workshop but I think that not all answers to a posted work are critiques. Sometimes people joke, or just say thank you, or discuss. Would all that count as a critique? I recommend to just count the number of threads one has anwered to, once per thread or you might get a completely skewed ratio. This is not ideal, but the only way I see to make that feature good.
     
  5. Imaginarily
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    Imaginarily Disparu en Mer Contributor

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    :bigeek:

    *dusts self off for meeting with The Boss*

    Either would work, and both have their benefits. The individual threads could serve double-purpose as a running list of which genres/themes/users you tend to critique, and that could be a reminder for people if they wanted to critique something different and expand their brains. :-D Or it could help new users find a person who's already critiqued a ton of stuff in the genre they want critiqued. Like, looking at a list of "This user has critiqued these stories" and they all end up being sci fi stories, that person would then know that this veteran critic gravitates toward sci fi — it could help match people up I guess I'm trying to say.

    Would it be possible to stick a counter on that feature? "Workshop entries critiqued (#)" ? Since our Workshop Entries tab has a counter built in...?

    The ratio thingy could be great, too. It would save us plebeians from having to do any math. :rofl:

    ...Could we do both? "Workshop entries critiqued (#)" and something that tells us "You can post X entries in the Workshop" ?
     
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  6. Daniel
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    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors. Founder Staff Contributor

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    Ah, I see. It's basically a gap in the software. I suspect that's what @Wreybies meant in regarding enforcement. In your experience, when someone comments on a Workshop thread, is it usually only done after they've already critiqued the piece? I ask because the functionality sort of exists that would only count the first post a user makes in the thread as a 2:1 credit. It was an option I had built into the system to prevent earning more than one "credit" per thread, but is not currently active due to a bug (which could be fixed). (The current system also does not count the thread starter's own post). This would help in regards to enforcing the 2:1 rule, especially if comments/discussion usually happens after people leave a critique.

    All this doesn't really help with determining the number of critiques made. However, if comments/discussion only happen after a critique is left, it would be much easier on the technical side for me to implement a tab that lists you're critiques (actually 1st post by you in a thread) and a counter to show you how many new workshop entries you've earned.

    The alternative would be to improve the software by requiring a stricter format for critiques, and then reference those requirements when listing the critiques you've made and the number of new workshop threads you can post.



    I think there is merit to both.

    The main issue is easily determining how many new threads you can post in the workshop, correct? I think this is the most obvious feature that's lacking. But both of these, or some version of them, I'd love to implement.

    I'm unsure of the utility of a general list of all critiques given. You have to browse, unless you just want to see the number of total critiques. You bring up some great possible uses though by getting a little more specific. I think you're on to something. :D

    What if you could see all of your critiques broken down by specific Writing Workshop forums and sub-forums? A grid that shows what genre or type of writing you review.

    Short Stories (54)
    - Crime & Thriller - 15
    - Fantasy - 18
    - Science Fiction - 20
    - Western - 1
    Scripts (1)
    Fan Fiction (2)

    It would be a straightforward overview, rather than a simple search query. As you pointed out, it could help writers get in touch with the right reviewer, and the reviewer get in touch with stories they'd enjoy.

    If it's a general list that displays all critiques in the Workshop, a counter in the tab should be easy.

    There would still be the issue of filtering out comments/discussion.
     
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  7. Lifeline
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    Lifeline The Dark - not in Wonderland Supporter Contributor

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    I don't really know how to answer that. Keep in mind, I am not a regular critiquer in the workshop, I usually critique one-on-one in PM's.
    In my perception, the workshop is there to keep interacting with a number of people, the basic merit I see is that more people than one can pitch in to solve a specific problem one piece has. This is a very good thing and I would hesitate to suggest that people only should answer to a thread with each a critique. I think exactly this kind of interaction in discussion is to the benefit of the writer of the original piece - yet that means that later answers will discuss/joke/only address one or two specific points. Later answers will often not be a full critique.

    To further complicate the matter, sometimes writers post later edits to their original posted piece (after incorporations of critiquers suggestions) later on in the thread, and a second round of serious critiquers gives critiques. And the whole circle starts anew, in the same thread.

    I don't know how to go about resolving this, I suspect that it boils down to how honest people are. You could maybe make a tag "critique" to attach to each answer in a thread which is a critique, but to attach that tag to that answer the one who posts this answer has to be honest when to use this tag. If you could get people to tag their answers when it really is a critique it would be easy to track.

    edit: And it would be easy for @Wreybies to filter for this tag and browse through if it is set correctly ;)

    edit2: It would also be easy to count, even by genres :)
     
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2016
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  8. Lifeline
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    Lifeline The Dark - not in Wonderland Supporter Contributor

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    Uhm. There are a number of sites out there who are skewed to just such a critique system, and are quite sophisticated. However, this here WF's - in my very personal opinion - main advantage/plus/outstanding feature in critique is just the possibility of interaction with multiple critiquers. If you require a strict format for critique I think you would scare away a lot of critiquers. Keep in mind, we here are NOT a professional critique platform. Most of our members (in my humble opinion) are relatively newbie ;) . We all love writing and solving puzzles with/for each other. Some of us aim for publication, some not. We are really diverse. This is our trademark.

    I would advice against such a strict critique format and instead rely on people using a tag wisely.

    edit: Wait, how come I am the sole authority on this topic??? Wrey? Anyone?? Am feeling a bit out of my depth here.. :eek:
     
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  9. Imaginarily
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    Imaginarily Disparu en Mer Contributor

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    Because I had to sleep <.<
     
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  10. Imaginarily
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    Imaginarily Disparu en Mer Contributor

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    Yes, that's exactly the issue I meant.

    I love the idea of a categorized list, where you can see how many critiques you've given in each subforum of the Workshop. :-D That would be perfect for determining preferred genres and styles, or where a person could branch out. A general search-result type list would be a bit clunky, I feel. Yes, your critiques would be there, but it wouldn't necessarily be user friendly.

    Perhaps a moderator (or several) could take on the task of tracking replies in the Workshop to make sure the Critique tag is being used honestly? If a reply doesn't count as critique, the mod could simply take the tag off of that post. :-D
     
  11. Komposten
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    Komposten Insanitary pile of rotten fruit Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Making an automated system for counting critiques would probably require a really strict format (in order to differ at crit from a comment/discussion), and I agree with @Lifeline that such a system could cause the amount of reviews to go down. Though, I do like @Daniel's idea of creating a list on a member's profile that breaks down critiques by Workshop thread. While automatic critique-detection might not be feasible, a list of this kind could still be created based on which threads a member has replied to in the different parts of the workshop (even though all replies might not be critiques). That could also come in handy for us mods since it would make it easier to go through a member's workshop posts to find crits.

    I also kinda like @Lifeline's idea of adding a Critique-tag to posts to indicate that said post is a critique post and not a comment/discussion post. However, maybe the tagging process should be moderated (as in, the user tags the post but a moderator has to approve the tag before it's officially applied) to prevent members from cheating the system? (This would add more work for the mods, but either we could have a "mini-mod" who's responsible for approving these tags, or we just have to split the work between us (depending on how many crits are actually posted, a few a day shouldn't be any problem)).
    However, I think this idea might be tough to implement since I don't think it's possible to add tags to individual posts without a plugin (which might have to custom-coded, if we cannot find an existing plugin that achieves this).
     
  12. Lifeline
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    Lifeline The Dark - not in Wonderland Supporter Contributor

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    Yep, both of those surely. Breaking down critiques by Workshop thread, and tagging 'Critiques' specifically within a posted work - if possible.
     
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  13. Imaginarily
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    Imaginarily Disparu en Mer Contributor

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    And that ratio thingy that says how many new entries we can post in the Workshop. :-D
     
  14. Daniel
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    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors. Founder Staff Contributor

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    It would require a strict format, but only as strict as we want to make it. It could be a minimum requirement, such as word count, or it could require breakdowns by writing element. I agree that it may act as a deterrent, but it could co-exist with comments/discussions.

    I think the tag idea is a good one, and it's probably better than a strict critique format. It would probably be the best approach for filtering actual critiques in a list. As you brought up, the functionality doesn't exist to tag a specific post, only a thread. I don't believe a third-party add-on exists, so we'd have to hire someone to custom-code it, or convince someone to add it to their existing software (plus it'd have to be maintained).

    On the front-end side, there could be a simple yes/no question that achieves the same result as an actual tag, or silently tags the post. Is this a post a critique? Yes/No. No, the discussion or comment gets posted, but doesn't count towards earning a workshop credit and doesn't show up in the profile critique lists. If marked Yes, it goes into a moderation queue and counts towards the workshop credit once approved and is displayed as a critique.

    As for the list of threads replied to in the workshop, it would be easy to set that up to show all replies you've made in the entire workshop. Limiting it by sub-forum will take some work, but can be reasonably done. The improvements here could be implemented incrementally, with a full list first, then a breakdown per sub-forum, then filtering to only include real critiques, etc. as the system develops.
     
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  15. Lifeline
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    Lifeline The Dark - not in Wonderland Supporter Contributor

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    Cheers! If this is an executive decision :)
     
  16. Daniel
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    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors. Founder Staff Contributor

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    Well I definitely want to polish these ideas to make sure they achieve their full potential, and it's definitely something I think should be implemented. Consider it added to the wish list.

    I can work on adding a general list of all workshop responses pretty quickly, but any of the other changes are going to require hiring our developer, which probably won't be possible for a while.
     
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  17. Lifeline
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    Lifeline The Dark - not in Wonderland Supporter Contributor

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    No prob, I am not in the habit of wishful thinking :)
     
  18. Daniel
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    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors. Founder Staff Contributor

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    @Lifeline okay, call it a developmental roadmap.
     
  19. Imaginarily
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    Imaginarily Disparu en Mer Contributor

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    @Daniel Yay! I'm so happy my idea is getting planned out with real intent. :-D

    Love it - this sounds like a perfect community-based way to track critiques without scaring anyone with harsh requirements. :-D
     
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  20. Daniel
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    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors. Founder Staff Contributor

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    I actually meant that the person writing the critique could choose Yes/No if it's a critique when they submit the post, and it then must be approved by a moderator.

    The alternative would be to have a "Is This a Critique: Yes/No" option when viewing the thread, and anyone viewing the thread could mark it as a critique or not, resulting in a community-categorization of critiques. Basically community-moderation. I'm not sure if it would work, but I think either system could, with the later could remove the need to officially moderate them entirely. I'm not sure if this is what you meant, but it's what I took from your post.
     
  21. Lifeline
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    Lifeline The Dark - not in Wonderland Supporter Contributor

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    I'd go with option One. It would not depend on others viewing the threat.
     
  22. Imaginarily
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    Imaginarily Disparu en Mer Contributor

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    I also meant Option One there. Sorry about ambiguity. :whistle:
     

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