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  1. Justin Rocket 2
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    Justin Rocket 2 Contributing Member

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    Transgender Identity and its limits

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Justin Rocket 2, May 24, 2016.

    Before asking my question, I want to establish that I'm supportive of transgendered people being allowed to use the restroom of their choice. I believe each restroom can have doors installed on each of the urinals just as those doors are currently installed on the toilets. As a Libertarian, however, I think this is something that the business owner where the restroom is located should manage.

    I am curious about whether transgendered boys who identify as girls be allowed to compete for scholarships for women?
     
  2. Cave Troll
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    Cave Troll Bite the bullet, do your own thing. Contributor

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    To make it clear I am not opposed to the gender challenged.

    That being said, I do not think that allowing transgender men to compete for a scholarship designed for women would be right. And I would extend that in the same direction for the transgender women when it comes down to scholarships for men. If the bits and kibbles don't match the sex, then no dice.
     
  3. Simpson17866
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    Simpson17866 Contributing Member Contributor

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    The actual word for that is "transgendered girls".

    If a woman is applying for a women's scholarship, then it shouldn't matter if she was born with guy parts as a birth defect, she should be allowed to try for the scholarship.
     
  4. 123456789
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    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    What scholarships for men?
     
  5. Cave Troll
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    Cave Troll Bite the bullet, do your own thing. Contributor

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    IDK, perhaps there will be one someday? :supersmile: What about the Football (American) Scholarships? Women don't typically go after that one I don't think, but they could and that one falls out the window.

    Well shit the world is sexist towards men. New plan we get rid of all the men, and solve half the worlds problems. Then whoever is left over can muddle through whatever FUBAR they have created in the aftermath of that genocide of that side of the species. At least the remaining half would have one less thing to bitch about. :supergrin:

    Fuck it this is a no win scenario...:nosleep: Why don't you come up with a better idea mister genius man, but I warn you there is no solution short of etch'a'sketching the whole damn thing back to square one again.

    Wait, get rid of gender based scholarships entirely, and that way anyone no matter man/woman/confused can have equal opportunity. Well in theory it could work until the SJW crowd shows up with there vehement victim complex. Fine I will make the call to the big boss in the morning tell 'em he screwed up, again. You know for being the most powerful and infallible being in the universe, guy sure does make a lot of mistakes.:supergrin:
     
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  6. ToBeInspired
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    ToBeInspired Contributing Member

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    I live in Asheville, NC. North Carolina is one of the leading states opposing this bill. Ironically, Asheville is a HUGE supporter of all LBTGQAP issues. One of our tattoo artist store owners is a self-proclaimed supporter of the bill and made it known, it was a very poor decision financially.

    I personally could care less, it's all just pieces of flesh. As long as you don't purposely make anyone uncomfortable I don't see an issue. Why not start a bill where we do our business side by side with no dividers like asian cultures?

    I do have on gripe with the LGBTQAP community and that's that they need to stop increasing their acronym over and over.

    Lesbian
    Gay
    Bisexual
    Transexual
    Queer
    Asexual
    Pansexual

    How about undecided, hemaphrodite, and others? When does the madness end. Let's find a way to shorten it, please.
     
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  7. Cave Troll
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    Cave Troll Bite the bullet, do your own thing. Contributor

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    Well that is quite simple really. Bi and Pan are basically the same thing. Queer is also a repetition on Gay and Les. And Asexual is impossible, because well humans can't change sex naturally based upon the needs of the society, only amphibians and fish can do that. That leaves Trans, which should roll into completing the steps to add or remove to become the opposite. Drum roll Please.............

    LGT. Now was that so damned hard? Next thing you know the Zoophiles and the Objectophiles. Really don't need the animal and toaster fuckers to join this list. I think we can all agree that less is more, and we can all coexist on this little blue ball we call home. Sound like a plan children? Cause honestly we have enough insanity without adding to the mix.
     
  8. Tenderiser
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    Tenderiser Not a man Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    Bi and pan aren't the same. Bi recognises a gender binary whereas pan doesn't.

    Queer is often used to refer to a fluid sexuality rather than homosexuality.

    Asexual doesn't mean changing sex; it means no interest in sexual relationships.
     
  9. ToBeInspired
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    ToBeInspired Contributing Member

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    Pansexual is not the same thing as bisexual. You'd be torn apart in some of the coffee shops I frequent talking lke that. Pansexual includes sexual interest in transexuals.

    Queer is not necessarily gay or lesbian either. You can be straight and still classify as Queer.

    Asexual is a disinterest in sex as an act entirely.

    Edit: Beaten to the punch.

    Pansexual means interest in all people regardless of sexual orientation or classification. Bisexual would not necessarily include intersexual (both male and female sexual organs), gender benders, or transvestites. Defining yourself as pansexual is a pretty big claim. I meet far more female pansexuals than male in Asheville. Though, sometimes people like to claim they are something without actually considering application of such claims.

    Queer, while priorly a derogative form of gay, has been "reclaimed" by the LGT society to now have a different meaning. Classifying as queer simply means you partake in unconventional sex. A heterosexual couple who enjoys bondage would be able to be classified as queer.
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2016
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  10. Cave Troll
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    Cave Troll Bite the bullet, do your own thing. Contributor

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    Well fine then I will give you that much. The point is every odd and end does not need to be on the protected sexual preference list.

    Oddly enough I did not know that about the reformation of queer being that of people in the lifestyle (BDSM and Fet related). Technically I fall into that category on both counts. :D
    But that does not give me any special privelage over the vanilla people that are straight. That just means that I like to complicate the hell out of my sexlife in fun and interesting ways, but by no means makes me a better or hindered person because of it. It mainly scares people away because they are closed minded. (Which to a degree on this topic I will admit I have my short comings as a whole, forgive me for I am human and prone to error.)

    The point across the board that I am trying to make is that we should be treated one and the same, without mucking around with all the fancy titles and such. We are all human at the end of the day regardless of what belief/sex/sexual pref/and so on. I will accept whatever you want to Identify as when it comes to these things, but don't use it for special pleading and privelage. The more we label things the more divided we become. Just cause it's not for me, does not give me the right to tear you down. That is where we should draw this line, cause people are dumb creatures for all the intellect in our big brains. If somebody doesn't like you because XYZ, then so what that is their choice. I think it is complete bull shit for an employer to use such things against someone, when it has no bearing on the job in question, but people are asses. Likewise for business owners that refuse service to certain parties. Work is work, and money is money, so I fail to see how what I do or don't do in the bedroom has any bearing on my life other than where I practice it. I know my first amendment rights, and am capable of both being offensive and being a offended. That does not then give me anything extra. And those that blatantly use their biases to be selective should be dealt with in due fashion under the law civilly. Unfortunately we fall back into my favorite conundrum: People are bloody morons.
     
  11. ToBeInspired
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    ToBeInspired Contributing Member

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    My beliefs are pretty simple and can be summed up in a single sentence.

    Who the fuck cares.

    As long as it doesn't broach what I constitute as proper morality than I could care less what you're interested.

    If you're a necrophiliac I'm straight up going to think it's gross as hell no matter what. Yet, if you have written consent from the deceased then do whatever the fuck you want.

    Like any of it matters. What does anyone else's sexual orientation have to do with me? (Well, unless I'm hitting on a girl and I have no chance because she doesn't swing my way)

    It's all irrelevant in the scheme of things. Stop hating on people just to hate.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
    Last edited: May 26, 2016
  12. Cave Troll
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    Cave Troll Bite the bullet, do your own thing. Contributor

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    Fair enough.
     
  13. Adenosine Triphosphate
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    Adenosine Triphosphate Old Scratch Contributor

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    I think it could easily be seen as a subtype, rather than something fully distinct.
    If every human being had the ability to become temporarily asexual, their cognitive ability would improve enormously.
     
    Last edited: May 29, 2016
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  14. Megalith
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    Megalith Contributing Member Contributor

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    I have a couple question about all the possibilities as well.

    Say someone with male reproductive organs identifies as a female. As I understand this is called a transgender female. If they had sexual attraction to females then they would also be lesbians. And in this case it would be a lesbian couple that could reproduce. That seems a little odd an unnecessary, but maybe there is a point to it that I don't understand? Maybe they'd need a whole new label? Like trans lesbian.Heck if someone ever really wanted to get that lesbian of their dreams they can try identifying themselves as a woman. That probably wouldn't work out to well for you though, lol.

    I also have questions about qualifications. Do you have to have a bunch of habits or something to prove your sexual identity? Can you change your identity more than once in your life and if you can is their a limit? I don't imagine many people taking advantage of this in anyway like the media likes to spin, but I still have these questions. Is it hypocritical or biased of me to do so?
     
  15. Tenderiser
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    Tenderiser Not a man Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    @Megalith many people's sexualities are fluid. There was a period of several years where I was exclusively attracted to women, so I called myself a lesbian. If I had to label myself now I'd say pansexual (because I would happily date a trans person or a gender queer person) even though I'm in a monogamous heterosexual relationship. I don't think my identity "changed" each time; it's more of a sliding scale that I moved around on. I suppose if a person moved around too much, or kept announcing different labels, other people might get fed up and stop recognising their "changes"--but no, I don't think there's a limit to how fluid sexuality can be.

    There's no authority out there demanding people prove their sexual identity. Other people might demand that you prove it: for example, some people say teenagers can't say they're gay until they've tried hetero sex (interestingly, nobody demands that everyone try homo sex...) It's really up to each individual to self-identify, but you have to accept that others might not agree with your label, or might call you something else.

    This is the tricky thing about sexual and gender identity. You can call yourself whatever you like, but getting other people to use your chosen pronouns or labels? Tricky.
     
    Last edited: May 30, 2016
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  16. KaTrian
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    KaTrian A foolish little beast. Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Probably not if said lesbian wasn't into wieners. :D But of course, some people do fall in love with just the personality, never mind the body their significant other inhabits. I'm not one of those people, not yet anyway, I prefer my partner big and tall and hairy, with a deep voice, no boobs, a wiener and so on. Obviously in my husband's case if he lost his junk in an accident or all his chest hair fell off, I wouldn't dump him. But when we talk about attraction and the initial stages of dating, there are things I'm attracted to, many of them "traditionally" masculine, so if, say, a transman who doesn't have those qualities approached me, I most likely wouldn't be attracted to him even when he says he identifies as male. But as @Tenderiser pointed out, these things are fluid, and that's why I won't say anything definite.
     
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  17. Simpson17866
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    Simpson17866 Contributing Member Contributor

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    @Tenderiser @KaTrian Just deleted my post. Clearly I'm not as over my teenage heterophobia as I thought I was, and I'm sorry for dragging you into this.
     
  18. Tenderiser
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    Tenderiser Not a man Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    @Simpson17866 I've deleted my quote and reply. :)
     
  19. Megalith
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    Megalith Contributing Member Contributor

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    I have a lot of respect for pansexuals. It seems like what I would want to try and become if I ever decided to get over my heterosexuality. I mean if your going to try and get rid of your bias my as well go all out. Not something I expect will happen to me anytime soon though. As you say there a preferences which seem a little hard wired and I don't imagine overcoming that is easy, even if your willing. In that sense maybe we don't have very much control over it and it just sort of happens.
     
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