Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Mans
    Offline

    Mans Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Messages:
    673
    Likes Received:
    193
    Location:
    Iran

    Turkish tends to violence and conflict

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Mans, Dec 8, 2015.

    In recent two weeks, the in charges of Turkish tended to tension and struggle with other countries in the east of Middle East ( Syria and Iraq) and west of Asia ( Russia). It is not a good state for a government. It damages the credibility and trustfully of a government in the scene of policy and international relationships.

    I see Turkish leaders speak harshly and violently to others and have some tendency to hostility and conflict without a rational reason. They are provoked and angry like a bear that supposes someone has violated its boundary while nobody want to do that in the area.

    Turkish air force targeted a plane of Russia that was fighting with ISLS terrorists in Syria, while they had to help the plane instead, to do its mission more effective against the wolves of ISLS.
    The government of Turkish claimed, the plane violated the boundary of Turkish while the plane had focused on its mission against those terrorist groups and there was not any motivation for Russian plane to violate boundary of Turkish. The president of Russia Vladimir Putin tolerated the bitter event and didn't do any military reaction in respond to the wrong action of Ankara. He just requested the leaders of Turkish to apologize Mosque formally but the heads of Turkish refused to do that at least.

    Also, a few days ago, Turkish troops entered into a part of Iraq and Syria territories without authorities of the two countries government, claiming falsely, they wanted to train the Kurdish fighters against ISLS! If they were honesty they wouldn't arrive other countries without permission of their governments.
     
  2. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,602
    Likes Received:
    5,877
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    News from this side of the world is that Russia is fighting Assad opposition and not ISIS. Turkey is against Assad.

    I'm so sorry that part of the world is such a mess.

    It makes our problems here look pale.
     
    Mans likes this.
  3. Jack Asher
    Offline

    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,571
    Likes Received:
    2,053
    Location:
    Denver
    What government?
     
  4. Mans
    Offline

    Mans Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Messages:
    673
    Likes Received:
    193
    Location:
    Iran
    Governments of Syria and Iraq.

    Iraq people are upset and angry now and support their government that has warned Turkish to take out its troops from Iraq territory immediately, and Turkish has refused to withdraw from Iraq persistently.
    Iraq had threatened Ankara if they don't go out from Iraq they will make an official complain to UN council, in the first stage, but apparently Erdogan, the president of Turkish doesn't want to respect Iraq government's sovereignty and doesn't respect the international rules and laws.
    Of course, Iraq avoid a hard reaction against irrational behaviors of Turkish leaders but I think, if the heads of Turkish go not back to a lawful and logical condition they will encounter a military respond of the rightful countries.
     
  5. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,602
    Likes Received:
    5,877
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    I appreciate your update, @Mans. I do hope things do not deteriorate.
     
    Mans likes this.
  6. Lewdog
    Offline

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,530
    Likes Received:
    2,825
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY
    It's amazing the different news that is heard in one nation, Iran, and what we get here in the U.S. As @GingerCoffee said, Russia wasn't bombing ISIS when they invaded Turkey's airspace with their plane. They were actually targeting Syrian forces that oppose Assad. In fact we have been getting news that they have been doing this for a long time, under the guise that they were actually putting all their effort towards getting rid of ISIS. It's a major reason why Russia is basically in a two nation coalition with Syria, while the U.S. and Turkey are part of over a 60 nation coalition to fight ISIS and end the war in Syria.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2015/10/02/russia-is-using-old-dumb-bombs-making-syria-air-war-even-more-brutal.html

    So it is amazing that such different views about a situation can arise. I really begin to wonder if the news @Mans is getting from the Iran media is similar to the media in Russia, that everything is slanted with propaganda and not necessarily the heart of what is truly happening, OR if Western media is trying to give its own slant to the situation. I just find it hard to believe that if I do a search on the internet, I can find so many sites that say the same thing and give similar information to what I posted, yet it is far from the news that @Mans posts.
     
  7. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,602
    Likes Received:
    5,877
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    The news is slanted in all of our countries @Lewdog. If you want to see how bad it can get in the US, watch Bill Moyer's Buying the War. That doesn't mean @Mans is getting unbiased news despite the fact he believes he isn't. You have to keep that in mind and keep an open mind about all of it.

    I'm fascinated with @Mans' views and I think the balance of views outside the US are critical to getting to the truth in the world. I know from personal experience that the people in Iran are good people even if I don't like the current status of women there. I know some women from Iran who agree with me, who enjoyed a normal life there before the last revolution.

    On the other hand, we've done the Iranians a terrible disservice when we overthrew their democratically elected leader, Mossadegh and supported reinstalling the Shaw.

    I respect @Mans' religious views. I'm sorry he wants to impose those views on everyone but I also understand the issues of cultural standards.

    Now, more than ever, we need to seek out multiple views of the Middle East turmoil. If we rely on the oversimplified versions we get from our own news, we can't hope to understand the actual issues involved.
     
  8. Jack Asher
    Offline

    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,571
    Likes Received:
    2,053
    Location:
    Denver
    Oh I know what you meant, and I say again: what government?
    I don't know who those women are, but they sure aren't Baha'i. Iran's human rights abuses on that front have no mitigation. I haven't seen @Mans speak out against it, so as far as I'm concerned he's culpable in the abuse. So I don't really see him as a "fascinating" cultural curiosity.
     
  9. Mans
    Offline

    Mans Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Messages:
    673
    Likes Received:
    193
    Location:
    Iran
    Lewdog, so please explain, why Turkish didn't coordinate itself with Iraq state that is fighting with ISIS, and Ankara sent its troops into territory of Iraq without authorization and permission of Iraq government?

    (Turkish claimed that it has arrived into Iraq with permission of Iraq leasers, while Iraqi in charges denied this pretension and declared they have not received any request of Turkish.)
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2015
  10. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,602
    Likes Received:
    5,877
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    My parents lived in Iran for a year just before the Shaw was overthrown and though I didn't get to visit them there, I have met many of their friends and some of my own.

    The ones that live here don't like either government, the Shaw or what followed. When I say normal life, I mean women had relatively modern lives and while the culture was different, they weren't overly religious.
     
  11. Lewdog
    Offline

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,530
    Likes Received:
    2,825
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY
    Sadly there isn't much coordination with a lot of the countries over there because they all have ill will towards each other for one reason or another. They just can't work togethger despite the fact they now have a common enemy. This has become very evident given the fact that Russia has even started bombing Turkish troops who are fighting with Syrian opposition forces against ISIS on the Syrian border with Turkey. Then to try and justify their actions, and to make Turkey look bad, Russia is trying to say that Turkey is actually helping ISIS by buying oil off of them, which many outlets here have pointed out all the flaws in Russia's accusations. It's just a mess to be totally honest with you, and it is difficult when you have two groups, the one with the U.S. and 60 plus other countries, and then the Russia and Syrian Assad group, with different strategies on how to handle ISIS. Throw in on top of that countries like Iraq and Iran that really are doing their own thing. I don't have any specific details about Turkey going into Iraq to fight ISIS so I can't really comment on that right now.
     
  12. Jack Asher
    Offline

    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,571
    Likes Received:
    2,053
    Location:
    Denver
    10675671_385301091617338_3980599612106936044_n.jpg
     
    GingerCoffee likes this.
  13. Mans
    Offline

    Mans Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Messages:
    673
    Likes Received:
    193
    Location:
    Iran
    Gingercoffee, first of all thank you for your grace about people of Iran. We believe ( truly) you American people are good as well. Even the major leader of Iran said in a part of his speeches: "we are not opposite of America people, I even feel a pity to this people..."


    Gingercoffee, if you traveled to Iran and observed Iranian women closely, you would find out that the reality is unlike the news that you have heard from the western medias. Sadly the imaginations of western people about condition of women in Iran is not true.

    Women in Iran are very respectful and they even are prior to men in some conditions. Women are equal with men in right in Iran except some a few situations that Islam has specified for them and it is their clothes that should cover the necessary part of their body among their hairs. Also they can educate in school, high school and university and even it is the recommend of Islam that they educate like men.

    Women of Iran can work outside of their home, in schools, offices, institutions, factories, hospitals, markets and also they can participate in the elections to be a minister or a member of Islamic parliament. Many women of Iran are doctor, engineer, teacher and professor of universities. We have even some women that are the truck, bus and taxi driver by their own choice.
    Some women in Iran are pilots and polices and some are athletes that have won some medals of Olympic and the other international competitions.
    Women of Iran can play football and volleyball and the other games that they love.
    They are the owner of their own properties whether acre, gold, money, jewellery or other stuffs and there is not any difference between them and men.
    Some women of Iran are judges, some are lawyers and some are the boss of the real estate registration offices and so on.
    some women of Iran are the city council representative and some are the manager of corporations and firms.
    some women in Iran are wealthy and are a notable capitalist and investor and have their own employees and brokers.
    The most majority of women, men and children of Iran are under the coverage of care health insurance with a low premium that almost their treatment will be free.
    The government of Iran vaccinates millions of children of Iran free (almost every year) against any disease.
    Women of Iran can chose every cloth and shoe and use every jewellery but the dresses must be proper for the high character of women.

    despite all freedom and rights of women in Iran, a woman is not rightful to appear in the Islamic society like a non-Muslim woman with uncovered hair or improper dresses that don't cover some parts of feet, arms and neck.
     
  14. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,602
    Likes Received:
    5,877
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    We've had this discussion before @Mans. I do not believe all the women in Iran are happy about restrictions placed on them simply because they are of the female gender. Of course they are not going to say anything, if they do they risk going to jail.

    It's from Wiki so I'm not sure all the links will still be good.
     
  15. Lewdog
    Offline

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,530
    Likes Received:
    2,825
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY
    Yes I have to say I also believe that it is very hindering to a woman to be forced to wear a cover over their head and face. I would say that is a pretty large infringement on their freedom.
     
  16. Mans
    Offline

    Mans Contributing Member

    Joined:
    Sep 29, 2012
    Messages:
    673
    Likes Received:
    193
    Location:
    Iran
    Ginger and Lewdog

    You imagine all women of Iran have to wear a perfect hijab. It is not so.
    We have a perfect hijab that the high religious women wear optionally to make Lord more satisfied (nobody or no Islamic organization forced them to wear the type of cover but they do that optionally just because of their faith and for respect to God)

    [​IMG]

    Also there is the least of hijab that the usual women wear.

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Lewdog
    Offline

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,530
    Likes Received:
    2,825
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY
    It doesn't really matter what style it is @Mans , it is still something that is required of women which infringes against their freedom and a violation of their own bodies. How would you feel if you were forced to wear something on your head at all times?
     
  18. Jack Asher
    Offline

    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,571
    Likes Received:
    2,053
    Location:
    Denver
    Like, say, a beard?
     
  19. Lewdog
    Offline

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,530
    Likes Received:
    2,825
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY

    I see @Mans picture and he doesn't have a beard.
     
  20. GingerCoffee
    Offline

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2013
    Messages:
    17,602
    Likes Received:
    5,877
    Location:
    Ralph's side of the island.
    I was aware veils were not required, @Mans.
     
  21. Jack Asher
    Offline

    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,571
    Likes Received:
    2,053
    Location:
    Denver
    What I mean is that the Quran stipulates that men must wear a beard as well that women should wear scarves. Why focus on one and not the other? It's also worth pointing out that some orthodox Jews and Christians also hide their hair. I don't see you castigating the Amish for discrimination.
     
  22. Lewdog
    Offline

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,530
    Likes Received:
    2,825
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY
    But being Amish is a choice. That's a little different than living in a country and being forced to wear something and to act in certain ways or get in trouble with the police.
     
  23. Jack Asher
    Offline

    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,571
    Likes Received:
    2,053
    Location:
    Denver
    Is it? Because wandering around without pants falls under the same category, and I'm almost positive you aren't arguing for nudism.

    The government of Iran just domained a Baha'i cemetery in Shiraz in order to build a shopping mall. They helpfully relocated the remains into a nearby ditch. A Baha'i who misses work, or closes his business on a Baha'i holy day can be arrested, interrogated (tortured), fired, or have his business shut down. Baha'is are forbidden from attending school, or teaching, can't serve in the military, police or even public office.

    But sure, the real injustice here is that another country has a different ideal of modesty.
     
  24. Lewdog
    Offline

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2012
    Messages:
    7,530
    Likes Received:
    2,825
    Location:
    Williamsburg, KY
    Modesty? How is it modesty to say that a woman must wear something on their head but the men don't have to?

    Saying that someone has to wear something to cover their private parts has absolutely nothing to do with this situation, that is a ridiculous argument.

    I don't have a clue why you brought up the other stuff because it has nothing to do with the conversation of how women are treated.
     
  25. Jack Asher
    Offline

    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2013
    Messages:
    3,571
    Likes Received:
    2,053
    Location:
    Denver
    How is it not? Why do we decide that women must cover their breasts and men don't?

    No, it's exactly the argument. You believe that some parts are "private" and must be covered, but you object when another culture has a different list of parts than you do.

    Which in turn has nothing to do with Turkey's military operations in Syria, don't point fingers when I hijack your hijack.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page