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  1. Sonne Lore
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    Sonne Lore Active Member

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    Twilight - Fiction or that other thing we never speak of?

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Sonne Lore, Mar 10, 2014.

    I'm genuinely curious to see exactly how many of you do/do not believe that the Twilight Saga (it burns just writing that) is actually literature.

    Personally, I think it and everything that its ever inspired is a steaming pile of shit not worth of being used as hampster cage lining, but that's just me.

    Also, if you're one of those people who DO think it's worthy of the title of genuine literature, please explain yourself in much detail.




    And go.
     
  2. Thomas Kitchen
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    Thomas Kitchen Proofreader in the Making Contributor

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    Well I looked up the definition of 'literature', where it stated: "written works, especially those considered of superior or lasting artistic merit."

    Twilight? Superior? No.

    Lasting? Yes, most likely.

    But lasting artistic merit? No way.

    I think the Captain Underpants books are better (actually, they're hilarious).

    :)
     
  3. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    I've made this argument in the past and I know it strikes most as unseemly, but I think it and a lot of other literature like it is just a particular flavor of porn. Porn is defined as a lurid display and its use tends to be to fulfill a need that is not being satisfied in a natural, real world kind of way. That's why books of this ilk are porn to me. Twilight provides a very lurid escape into a realm where a black & white cut-out girl lives a fantasy of unimaginably, epiclly beautiful young men fighting each other to the death, engaging in war, creating mythologies, all over this girl. She is the center of a universe where all eyes are on her, all attention on her.

    That's porn.

    The boy version of this porn is Harry Potter. A story wherein the nerdiest boy alive gets whisked off to another world of magic and intrigue where he is the pwningest of all pwners. All baddies who are bullying him (that's such an important part of the hook) get trounced, trodden, and most importantly, publicly defeated. He gets the girl, all the cool friends, an enviable 'wand', and all the other accouterments boys are needful of.

    So it's not that it's bad in and of itself, you just have to accept what it is going into it.
     
  4. Thomas Kitchen
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    Thomas Kitchen Proofreader in the Making Contributor

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    This is why you are the best member on this forum.
     
  5. Mackers
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    Mackers Contributing Member

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    Don't forget about 50 Shades of Grey, Wreybies...Where it actually is porn. (Very bad porn, might I add, written by what seems like an excitable teenager)

    It always astounds me that books like this (and Twilight) can gain this kind of popularity...It's the same for hugely popular observational comedians...What does it say about the masses of people who buy this stuff? I hate talking about this as it always comes perilously close to snobbery, but I often think there's a good reason why the general public can't be trusted to vote on, say, some serious matters of politics, for example :D
     
  6. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    It doesn't surprise me in the least, @Mackers. If you're willing to expand the concept of porn out from just graphic sex, and accept that graphic sex porn is just one facet of a larger phenomenon that includes other kinds of media, then you become aware that people like porn. We just don't like to admit it or fess up to it. We call it different things or pretend it's not what it is in order to enjoy it and not feel morally or ethically tainted.
     
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  7. Gallowglass
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    Gallowglass Contributing Member Contributor

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    I think it's genuine literature, because it fits the definition of genuine literature. It's a written work of lasting artistic merit. We may dislike it, but that doesn't count: definitions are objective.
     
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  8. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Yes, it's literature. I think it's better than it's arch-rival, Harry Potter, in pretty much every respect. Of course, this still doesn't make it 'good'; I've never laughed so hard as when Stephen King said Rowling was a fantastic writer, and Twilight was doggerel (not his exact words, but his sentiment pretty much). To me that's like being called a 'bad guy' by one Josef Mengele.
     
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  9. Sonne Lore
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    Sonne Lore Active Member

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    Hahahaha, mentions of 50 shades of grey being porn written by a teenage get funnier every time I hear them. 50 shades was written by E.L when she was around sixteen using Bella and Edward instead of Christian and whatever the fuck she called her. I stumbled over it several years ago on a website called Fanfiction.net
     
  10. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh
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    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

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    Oh, wait if books like that are smut (under your definition), what are the books I read like?

    Think the girl version of Harry Potter, with lots of hot guys and if Hogwarts was an elite academy, and you have my favorite book.......
     
  11. ChickenFreak
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    ChickenFreak Contributing Member Contributor

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    I'm confused--I don't see any way that "artistic merit" can ever be objective. Do you mean that it's widely popular?
     
  12. Sonne Lore
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    Sonne Lore Active Member

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    You mean Vampire Academy? @Duchess-Yukine-Suoh

    Most paranormal romance fiction is badly written, underwhelming and disturbingly cliche.
     
  13. thirdwind
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    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    I don't think the Twilight series is going to be remembered for very long. I doubt many people will be reading it a decade from now. Books like that are meant to mimic more modern forms of entertainment. What people want is a quick dose of fun, whether it's in the form of a stupid song, some silly video that's gone viral, or a book without substance that can be read in a few hours. So my guess is that even though Twilight will decline in popularity, some other series will replace it and become very popular in the coming years.
     
  14. Sonne Lore
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    Sonne Lore Active Member

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    Let us hope then.
     
  15. chicagoliz
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    chicagoliz Contributing Member Contributor

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    I also question whether Twilight will really last, hence leaving the "lasting literary/artistic value" requirement unfulfilled. That said, it has its place.
     
  16. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Yeah, I don't think Twilight will last the test of time. I hope the same thing happens to Potter too, quite frankly.
     
  17. thirdwind
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    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    This discussion is way too one-sided. I may have to switch sides and defend the position that Twilight is great literature. :p
     
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  18. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    ^Haha! To be honest, I'm impressed my vehement anti-Potterism (I know that's not a word - I don't care, I'm ill) hasn't caused some sort of outrage.
     
  19. thirdwind
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    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    Twilight is definitely not better than Harry Potter. Don't know what you're smoking.

    Manflu part deux?
     
  20. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Can't be smoking anything, doctors orders. :p

    Worryingly it seems to be getting worse. :/
     
  21. Fitzroy Zeph
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    Fitzroy Zeph Contributing Member Contributor

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    I'll make a point of sitting down and reading Twilight someday. Soon, I promise. I did read all the HP series to my daughter as she was growing up and we had a lot of fun with it. For what it was, it was perfect. They're not on on re-read list, although, I did re-read the first one a couple of months ago as a case study and marveled at how lucky JKR was to having it published. She could have just as easily still been riding that subway or bus or whatever, scheming her first great break out novel.
     
  22. EdFromNY
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    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    A woman I worked with early in my career always said that she thought Dracula was the sexiest character she had ever come across. She equated the sucking of victims' blood with a form of sex. I used to worry about her boyfriend.
     
  23. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    To be fair to her, some academics would kind of agree with her. There is a long-held idea that Dracula is about repressed sexuality in the Victorian era.
     
  24. jazzabel
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    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

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    Lemex is right. Vampire myth (an old myth that existed in the Balkans since the middle ages, etymology of the word is here) was used in English literature to sublimate sexuality in the Victorian era. Just look at how much lust is written in there, in an era where sexuallity had no chance of being discussed openly. I think those stories were aimed at women, mainly, and even today, mostly women find vampire myth sexy. I am not intersted in the blood sucking aspect in the slightest, but everything else, ooooh ;)

    ps. NOT Twilight, though. More like Bram Stoker's Dracula, True Blood and Anne Rice.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2014
  25. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh
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    No, no vampires. Ouran High School Host Club! It's very good.

    I actually don't like vampires. They scare me. The only vampire I like is Simon from the Mortal Instruments.
     
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