Two Romance Readers and One Sci-Fi Nerd read Dune

@KokoN trust me on this... my commitment to this thread is taking forever to complete. And it's not from lack of starting, I just get drawn off to other things.

What do you mean you're getting back into writing? I've vaguely kept updated in the past when you journal, I thought you've been writing, writing, writing...?

 

@KokoN - I agree, the random conversations are the best but it seems folks have kinda drifted off from the thread

@LinnyV - whack Frank Herbert rather

 

Hey everyone. Sorry I haven't been in on the various debates on whether or not it was boring - I dropped off the face of the Earth and haven't posted anything so obviously I'm not reading it at the moment. Certainly don't hate the book, but it is a bit slow and in my case I just had so many other things going that assigned reading was stressing me out so I had to step away and re-charge so that reading and writing were fun again (I've been off the forum entirely, and had to take time away from my main novel and work on side projects. I'm back on the novel now, thank goodness). I may go back to Dune when I finish the one I'm working on now, but epics like that really aren't my wheel-house - because of exactly the sort of slow pace that we've all experienced.

Strangely enough, I did get an interesting experience comparing Dune with the book I'd selected as my "fun read" for the same period - Barsk: The Elephants' Graveyard by Lawrence M. Schoen (a Nebula nominee this year and the butt of many elephant jokes on the front end of this thread). It ended up really fun because Barsk is a lot more of a space-opera-type book than I normally prefer - and funny enough the plot also revolves around an isolated, resource poor planet that is the only source of a spice that is extremely important and precious in the rest of the galaxy, and also uses multiple points of view. The entire setup is not just a rip-off of Dune, it's an obvious and intentional reference to Dune (Schoen has a background in humor writing so I'm sure he expected the vast majority of his sci-fi audience to be in on the joke) - so reading them simultaneously was a trip.

The thing is, I'm enjoying Barsk a lot more than I enjoyed Dune. That shouldn't be the case seeing as Dune is the classic, and the two books have very much the same basic form. But for me, Barsk holds my interest a lot better. There's a wider array of characters (each with a distinct narrative voice), a slightly faster pace (but still slower than my normal), and frankly just a lot more to keep me interested. Maybe that's commentary on me as a modern reader. I like things snappy, I like characters who speak and think colloquially, and I like people (or in this case, space elephants) who I can get invested in.

 

What I meant was until yesterday, it has been almost two weeks since I'd written anything. I got really bogged down with school.

 

Dear Dune thread... You've been sadly neglected and I was meant to add my progress today.

I confess, I have been prioritizing other things and have not read you as much as I should. But I am here because I did say to @Mckk I was going to give you a bit of TLC. I don't want her to call me an elephant in pinyin.

So what did I read...?

Well to begin with, there was a lot stops and starts and I think I mentioned I got side tracked, and thought to read the Quran. Even tried to express my opinion of the sacred book to my Islamic friend, to which his text message to me was still, "Get a job!"

Yes, he remains unimpressed with my ignorance. hehe

So what I read today was a weird experience. I couldn't remember why I was where I was, but it was a scene between our Baron and his least favorite nephew, Rabban. All the while, the Baron is thinking how wonderful the other nephew, Feyd-Rautha is.

Of course, when it comes to all Baron scenes, there are mentions of food and hunger, suspensor technology and an underlying pedo-vibe. I think I read somewhere that it is believed that the Baron is not so much a pedo, but only that he likes young men that remind him of his younger self. That his sexual motivation is that he wants to sleep with himself. Am I getting too weird here? Nevermind.

So in this particular scene there is a lot of mentioning of "squeezing" the Arrakis economy to recoup the cost of taking out the Atreides. I'm glad that Rabban is not as stupid as his Uncle thinks he is. As an objective reader, I'd say the Baron is the comically stupid one. We learn the Kynes is married to a Fremen. I must have missed this. That they plan to kill him off. I hope this does not happen since I don't mind Kynes. All up the scene was Frank's usual caricature depiction of evil. It always makes me think Austin Power Dr Evil.

I then read the next chapter and especially liked the epigraph itself that says:

"At the age of fifteen, he had already learned silence."

It made me think: At the age of fifteen, I was still struggling to stay still, let alone learning silence...

But it seemed like a worthy achievement.

We were back with Paul and his mother. It's confirmed again that Jessica is afraid of her son. I think it sounded authentic why too. After all, Paul has become the potential bringer of bad news since he is now 'online' with his prescient abilities. I found the way this skill is expressed at times to be a little confusing and I would have to reread the lines.

It was also interesting reading this scene because earlier in the day I got back to a writing buddy on what I thought about a male character who is "momma's boy". I expressed I thought it may be boring if the Mother-in-law was a kind wise woman that the Hero would sought counsel from her. Sorry to all the mothers! No offense intended. I think I was allowing my opinion as a wife with a difficult mother in law influence my thinking.

But this scene is all about where the Son is now superior to the Mother, so it was the opposite in that Paul does not seek counsel from Jessica anymore. It made me wonder if the reason I was mildly bored was because it was a Mother and Son scene. That it didn't matter how good, bad or indifferent the relationship was; that I was just not drawn to reading about that kind of relationship. I'm probably bias as well, since I am a mother of girls.

So I went through the combinations in my head...

Paul and a love interest, yes.
Paul and his father, yes. - but that's because I love Duke Leto.
Paul and some fremen, yes.
Paul and Kynes, yes.
Paul and a worm, yes.
Paul and his mother, no.

I'm not sure how many people would think: I want to read a coming of age adventure story about a boy...hanging out with his mother...

This further had me wondering if this did not add to the weight of boredom some people might have felt. That while this relationship is very important, it's not necessarily as compelling in a novel if male MC is spending so much time with Mother.

Anyway, I will try really hard in the next fortnight to get my head back into it.

*Pokes @Mckk @KokoN*

 

@LinnyV - nah, you're actually still at the interesting parts. It's some time after this that it starts to get quite frustrating. The incomprehensible and slightly needless descriptions of Paul's prescience begins here, and it continues, and it is lengthy. Rabban? Yes, I reacted like you too - that he's not so dumb, he has potential. That it's the Baron who's a comic villain, thinks of himself as smart when he's just plain dumb. It's wonderful build-up, foreshadowing to the reader that there's more, much more than you anticipated. Complex characters who defy expectations and come to impact the story.

The boredom isn't in the mother-son relationship. The boredom is in all of that unfulfilled potential, undelivered promises, and that despite all these juicy tidbits and great potential, all of these are ignored in favour of PAUL MAUD'DIB. Who's really not that interesting. Things go their predictable course - there are no surprises.

As for your list of relationships:

Paul and a love interest:

• gets glossed over. Its development is never shown.

Paul and his father:

• the Duke isn't really mentioned again except in passing. One would think it could have been explored in context of Paul's grief, but noooo...

Paul and some fremen:

• this one is actually there and it isn't too bad. I liked it.

Paul and Kynes:

• you're in for a surprise (a disappointing one)

Paul and a worm:

• there is officially one scene depicting this. That's it. Considering all the build-up about the worms, I find this a cop-out. It was also predictable as all heck.

Paul and his mother:

• truth is, there isn't much more to it than what you've already read

 

@Mckk you've got me really curious now...So 44% mark is still interesting and I'm being deceived in thinking there's much more...

And I smiled again that you took the time to respond to each combo, you're way too considerate.

But now you've made me want to read the book more!

I'm not that keen about Paul's love life since I'm thinking he turns into a polygamist. It offends my personal ideals in too many ways. (Note: not that I am condemning the practice, to each their own. Only, I don't personally enjoy the reading of it for me) This was also another topic of heated debate in a previous writing friendship because writer friend is a Mormon... I even used Duke Leto's devotion to Jessica as an arguing point.

But Kynes....?

hmmm, must read more this evening.

Thank goodness we're done with Jessica. Frank has made her into a boring-ish pregnant woman and I am tired of them travelling together.

I'll keep an eye open for what you criticised.

 

Read all your posts but I only want to respond to one part (mostly for times sake, I've gotten kinda busy sadly). First, awesome job at keeping with the reading! The thread won't die as long as someone's reading! Lol.

I think you have a point about the mother son Hong. However, I do believe it could be done well, but simply isn't being done well. Any characters need to have some kind of (non-romantic) chemistry, and Jessica and Paul have none. That is why they are so boring together, there is nothing interesting in that relationship. They don't seem that close and they don't communicate much. At least that's my take on it.

Keep us updated as you continue to read! Let us know when you get to Kynes again as I'd like to express my feelings about that except I don't want to spoil anything for you.

 

@KokoN : it's actually nice to hear from @Mckk and you on this thread. I find it ironic that it is the women that have persisted, we're obviously the more resilient ones.

(@Commandante Lemming , @doggiedude, @Wreybies )

Mr Lemming, you know I am only teasing, hope you are feel better this week.

But I am with you, there is no chemistry or parental connection between Jessica and Paul. I also have to agree with Mckk, Paul isn't really all that compelling. I'll keep hoping, even as I am getting doubtful he'll ever get better for me. He's been armed with skills that are pouring out of his ears, he's been turned into this foretelling autobot and everything about him falls flat. As a romance reader who has read her fair share of remote, strong, highly skilled male leads, he doesn't even fall into that. I do have to keep in mind he is still a teenager.

I didn't get to read last night because I was exhausted. But I'll try to read a bit tonight. It's going to be a long trip if I'm to get to the end by myself. Maybe I need to advertise for a Dune reading buddy? hehe

Speaking of which, can you ignore everything I said about your girlfriend/boyfriend relationship in your excerpt. I think I might have misread but I am so too tired to go back to it yet. I'll get back to it this week sometime.

 

Maybe I'll get around to checking out the book again and finish reading. Or maybe I'll read the cliff notes, haha! As for Paul, I think Dune is a very setting-driven book which might be why the characters sometimes are less than desirable. Some of them are great but I think he put way more effort into the world building part of it. Which is fine, it's just not what I normally like to read. However it's great for learning through and some of it is still interesting to read!

As for my draft, no worries. There's no rush whatsoever. I haven't written in a while because I've been tired out from work. (That makes two of us? ) And I'm still pretty sure the scene was very awkward lol. Just maybe not in the way you originally thought, idk.