1. KhalieLa
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    KhalieLa It's not a lie, it's fiction. Contributor

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    Typo's are a turn off . . .

    Discussion in 'Erotica' started by KhalieLa, Sep 15, 2016.

    So, my son called and asked for help with his first erotic venture. (Stop giggling.) I'm conducting a little market research.

    He's a programmer/developer who has been desperate for a porn job because "when you can catch a man with his pants down and his credit card out, you can take all his money." His company has a lot of clients, just no porn yet, so they decided to develop their own porn site.

    He and his buddies spent 6 hours last Saturday developing a program that was basically the same as the review system Amazon uses, (6 hours each and there were 3 of them = 18 hours wasted) except they want to monetize it via erotica.

    I directed him to literotica and pointed out that most erotica is poorly written, thus you couldn't get me to pay for it. Even if the premise of the story was steamy, the typos, poor grammar, and misspellings are simply a turn off. Reading a lot of erotica is about as fun as taking a needle in the nipple. (Yes @Cave Troll, I know you like that.) I told him that in order to get anyone to pay for erotica short stories online, they would need some measure of quality control in place. He suggested reputation points. If people say "good review" or "this review was helpful" that person would receive reputation points, earn enough points and you earn the right to post your own content. Would you be interested in this?

    Also, I told him that he would need some quality content to begin with. Which begs the question, where do you find quality short story erotica authors who would be willing to post content on some untried site?

    As authors in the target genre, what do you look for, and what would you want from a website dedicated to erotic short stories?
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2016
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  2. Cave Troll
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    Cave Troll Bite the bullet, do your own thing. Contributor

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    Yay, I get a twofer out of this! :supergrin:

    I will start with the dark powers you invoked to get me here. While one might suppose that, they would be incorrect as to where I enjoy taking needles. (Enough said)

    Now to your main point (hah a pun, how about that:p).

    I dabble a bit into the netherworld that is Erotica, though only as shorts. Not withstanding that like some being largely into a niche (or sub-genres if you will) subject/contact matter, it is terribly hard to find any good reading material. And yes @KhalieLa , Literotica is one of many places anyone who cares to post will do so. And yes and in a large part they flat out suck across the board. Occasionally you can find that rare story that does actually work, but you have to get extremely lucky to find even that much.

    Though I am kind of an odd one in the mix for looking beyond my favorite niche, and I have to say that it is really hard to find that story that is a story (or even much more than a fast paced gotta get it done thing). Now what I like is some degree of likeable characters, fairly developed plot, and a reasonable amount of imagery that isn't too vulgar or bland. Two big turnoffs when it comes to reading the stuff is simply how cheezy and over the top it can run off to. There should be a measurable amount of realism to it. None of that all guys have giant cocks, and the women have massive breasts, and on it goes. One of the biggest stumbling blocks is flow and constantly following train of thought. Most reads like rocky terrain, with my personal favorite of average people being able to pull off some shall we say impossible things. Like the ability to be doing one thing, and simply halfway into the action simply jump directly into another as if by magic mid thought. Details should be more vivid and lively, and with more complex scenarios a little bit of research can be a wonderful thing. Nothing really takes you out of the moment when there is just simply something that happens to be there and yet it is inexpiable? Sorry go all Hard Sci-fi fan on this, but it is true.

    I think it is just fine and dandy if you want to write one or more characters with a profession that may or may not tie into the kinky side. But knowing the things like lingo, tools/instruments, and so forth really do help to establish a scene and/or the characters. These are intimate fantasies, and should be treated with the intimacy they deserve.

    With that out of the way, don't be afraid of throwing it into another genres like Horror, Sci-Fi, Fantasy, Thriller, whatever. It is actually more entertaining to have some extra meat on the whole affair. In fact it would be a nice change of pace than to simply have A met B (random place public or private) and then A and B equals sex (or something tied into that dynamic, although sex in and of itself is not quite as interesting IMHO). I like adding little quirks, and mixing and matching genres within my own shorts because it is a bloody story!

    I recently started one that would fall somewhat into the horror category as well as erotica. It is kinda nice to write about what a possible raw emotional and physical response would be when one lover catches their partner cheating on them. That in and of itself is kinda easy. Keeping it riding a razors edge is the hard part. Also I kinda know just how scary Night Elves can be if they catch you cheating on them. :D
     
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  3. KhalieLa
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    KhalieLa It's not a lie, it's fiction. Contributor

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    1) When you're feeling erotic you dabble in shorts? What a coincidence, me too. To date, skirts haven't done a thing for me. ;)
    2) I think I lost my son when I told him to go kinky or go home. From an economic perspective there is lots of "regular" erotica out there, so why not specialize in taboo topics? He was thinking he could have "a large adult section in the back," but I thought that if he put that in the front the store he'd immediately draw a crowd not typically catered to, thus more willing to pay for quality content. Thoughts?
    3) So basically everything you look for in a traditional story + sex, right?
    4) Rather than forcing the boy to venture into the dark side, which I think he's uncomfortable with, could this be the niche? Genre fiction + hot and heavy sex? I told him that to make money he'd need to fill a niche.

    What would it take to get someone like you to part with your cash for a short story?
    Also--what do you think it would take to find decent authors and convince them to post content? (And are you a decent author?)
     
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  4. doggiedude
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    doggiedude Contributing Member

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    This post has made me want to try writing erotica even though the idea of reading one for entertainment is just plain silly to me. It's just not something I want to read about.
     
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  5. Cave Troll
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    Cave Troll Bite the bullet, do your own thing. Contributor

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    @KhalieLa first off don't take my own thoughts and ideas as cannon so to speak. I just happen to be one of the odd-balls that likes a good dirty yarn.:supersmile:

    I use that instead of saying "short story". But it would be a tad bit odd to use other means such as Surgical Gown or whatever (pick a preferred outfit that you find pleasing) . :p

    I would have to agree with you on the whole putting the more kinky and taboo pieces at the forefront, as they are likelier to capture the imagination. That and they are much more interesting as a whole than a hardcore wam-bam-thank you ma'am. Mainly due to the fact that it shows that there is more than what is considered 'typical' and steps up the intrigue by leading with something that is more than the every other place that leads with the all too common "standard sexual fantasy" on the old front door in a sense. As far as profiting is concerned, I think it should be a tad interactive for the customers. Have the select works of the authors up for sale, but also add the addition of custom fantasies (of course this is entirely up to the authors that are willing to go the extra mile). By having a set of the authors work on one 'shelf' and having another 'shelf' dedicated to customers where they can pick their favorite author and for a small additional fee get a more personalized fantasy tailored more toward the customer. This would be a big step with the advent of the ability to create a more immersive experience for the clientele base when the can get an author written story, or for a little extra a more personalized story of their choosing. This would show the customer that they are treated to an extra bonus that they more than likely will not find anywhere else. Even from a personal perspective, I would pay for a custom work of erotica that revolved around the niche I find enjoyable. One thing that might need to be established is the length of custom stories. Granted I have read shorts that vary from a few pages all the way up to about 60-70 pages, so charge by length in the added fee for a custom work.

    With this it is entirely speculative. Sex does not have to be in the story to make it Erotica, only the dynamic in the elements make it as such. Think about professional Doms/Domnias, they don't offer sex, but will do a hell of a lot instead. Sex is not a deciding factor per se. Simply having a 2-3 act Scene or Roleplay can be more than enough with the proper fixings. But essentially yes you would be correct for something of that particular flavor as well.

    The more diversified the better. There are a ton of niches (fetishes) out there, outside of the hot and heavy sex. Now he should keep it within a comfortable zone since he plans on dealing with it on a regular bases, and anything in the extreme or gross categories could be off limits. For instance a bit of heavy bondage and needle/sharps play should not be considered too far, where as things like bodily functions and snuff should be off limits (outside of other obvious illicit activity lest I elaborate) .

    I would set a base minimum of 7000 words, and an effective and arousing story at about $1-1.50 and up from there, and a little extra for a more custom piece.

    I like your merit system of points, as it incentivizes the authors to produce their best works for a monetary reward based on sales performances.
    And the side question, I have my own way of capturing an imagination. Or more badly written pieces I did at 17 even got the arousal of some that were
    not per se into the niche content, but I have come along way since then and have a much better understanding of writing in general. Though it is entirely
    up to the audience to be the final say in whether I am good at it or not.
     
  6. KhalieLa
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    KhalieLa It's not a lie, it's fiction. Contributor

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    Doesn't that make you the target audience then? ;)

    You are a genius! Forget small fee, we're in this for profit.
    This guy is with the Arrogant Worms, for $249.99 you can buy a custom song.
    http://www.trevorstrong.org/?page_id=31

    I've seen this before and loved it. My son agreed. We'll stick with the competitive pricing, $249.99 for custom erotic fantasies. He said he can add a "pong board" where customers can post fantasy/fetish request, then authors and choose which ones appeal to them and they would like to write. For that price the author writes what they write, but we're thinking a 5,000 word min for all stories, so that authors are providing a beginning, middle, and end, rather than just a scene.

    He doesn't need to look at it, that's what employees are for. When I talked to him last night he reported that everyone seemed happy about needing to be looking at porn on their work computers. One guy who was not on the original development team took my son to a computer and showed him a few erotic sites saying, "You see this crap? Do you have any idea how much I would pay for something decent?" So he was added to the team.

    Yes--there are legal issue to be dealt with first, as well. Not all porn is legal, and we don't know where the lines are. That would have to be specified in the author contracts. He doesn't want shut-down the week they launch just because someone posted kiddie porn. His main site is in Wisconsin, but he has servers in California and Washington state, too. He also has a site in Montreal so if Canada is more lenient, stuff might be hosted there. But then we have to be careful about international porn trafficking if there is such a thing. (There probably is.) Bestiality is a felony in Washington, but only a misdemeanor in California and Wisconsin. It's completely legal in Texas. Is it legal in Quebec? If he host bestiality stories in Quebec and someone in Washington buys a story does the FCC or FTC shut him down? Lots to consider.

    Were doing 99 cent down loads because you can get a lot of ebooks from Amazon for that price and we want to be competitive. Of the sales, 50% goes to the house, 50% goes to the author. It would be the same for custom stories. They're still developing the platform, so it'll be a while before delving into author contracts, etc.

    I was also thinking that once the site's been around for a few years we could compile anthologies, maybe taking the story with the highest three reviews from each year over the last four years to produce a "BDSM party pack," or something similar.

    Once the back end is complete he'll be looking for authors. No idea how he'll be recruiting, but there would have to be some form of submission process, review of work, etc, before contracts can be offered.
     
  7. doggiedude
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    doggiedude Contributing Member

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    I might just have to give this a try. (The writing part.)
     
  8. Cave Troll
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    Cave Troll Bite the bullet, do your own thing. Contributor

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    Thank you! :supersmile: Yes, Yes I am. :supergrin:

    So I hope all the pair of mass info dumps on the little venture they are working on has been helpful. :supersmile:
    Feel free to ask any other questions you may have on the subject. Though I hope there will be others
    who would also be able to discuss this with you as well. Good Luck. :supersmile:
     
  9. KhalieLa
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    KhalieLa It's not a lie, it's fiction. Contributor

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    No--The info dump was wonderful.
    What sub genre's are there for erotica? The goal is to promote more "kinky" stuff, but since neither my son nor I have any experience with this genre we don't' know exactly what we're looking for.
    If he puts in a roll-over or drop down like this (below), what headings and subheadings does he need?
    upload_2016-9-19_12-14-56.png
     
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  10. Cave Troll
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    Cave Troll Bite the bullet, do your own thing. Contributor

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    I would recommend doubling up BDSM and Fetish, the two commonly get paired together. Also there are Fetishes that are not related directly to either Role Play or BDSM, and can be stand alone or paired up. I would also suggest moving Incest into the Fetish section, and let the customer tell you the gritty pairing as I will suggest a handy feature a little further down.
    List of Fetishes:
    Feet
    Hands
    Gloves
    Boots
    Latex/Rubber
    Leather
    Satin
    Stockings
    Medical/Surgical/Dental (sub: Docotor, Nurse, Specialist)
    Secretary
    Teacher
    Waitress
    Cheerleader/School Girl
    Lawyer
    Witch/Wizard/Knight/Damsel and so on.
    Military
    Clowns
    Mature
    Masks (various)
    Age Play (ADBL)
    Trans/Shemale
    BBW/SSBBW/Bear
    Feeding
    Edibles (Food. Thanks @Doggie. :p )
    Body Modification
    Giant/Giantess/Amazon
    Wedding
    Torture Various (not as extreme as you might think. Feel free to ask for a break down if you need one. :) )
    Sharps/Branding play
    Living Furniture
    Fisting/Extreme Insertion
    Puppy/Pony Play (sub dresses up as part of the roleplay)
    Cowboy/Cowgirl
    Voyer
    Policeman/Police Woman
    Other...(always a handy feature when you simply need it) :p

    With that list out of the way. Obviously you only want to list the basics of all of these and have multiple selections available.
    I think after the selection(s) have been made, there should be a small text window allowing for a brief rough outline explaining
    some of the finer points and specifics of what they would like put into the story if they choose to go the custom route. Other wise
    they can simply explore an archive based upon Fetish or General Theme. I know it seems like there is a lot to put into one meshed
    together dropdown list, but it would get rid of the Incest from the main bar, by putting it in the BDSM/Fetish dropdown. Ultimately
    this is a tiny bit of all the crazy things that people find sexual in some fashion or another.

    I Hope this helps a little, and if you have any questions I would be more than happy to answer them the best I can @KhalieLa . Good Luck. :supersmile:
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2016
  11. doggiedude
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    doggiedude Contributing Member

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    How about food. There're plenty of food fetishes.
     
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  12. Cave Troll
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    Cave Troll Bite the bullet, do your own thing. Contributor

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    Like it messy and tasty eh? :p I think I will add in edibles. :)
     
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  13. doggiedude
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    doggiedude Contributing Member

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    In only crossed my mind because I have an idea for an erotic story which involves food.
    Certainly, nothing I've ever done myself.
    Totally fictional.
     
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  14. KhalieLa
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    KhalieLa It's not a lie, it's fiction. Contributor

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    This is a way for people to search for the Dollar Downloads.

    Why can't BDSM and Fetish be separate?

    BDSM--whips, sharps, bondage, etc (WHAT ARE THE BIG CATEGORIES??)
    Fetish--Roleplay, voyer, BBW/SSBBW, Incest, Lingerie/Leather, etc (Food, yes! Thank you @doggiedude )
    Genre Erotica--Fantasy, etc
    Normal Erotica--Gay, etc
    Custom Stories--This would take them to a page where they could request "made to order" stories.

    Right now I'm trying to figure out how many categories across the top; I can fill in the weirdness underneath later. I told my son that our motto should be: "If we build it they will cum."
     
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  15. Cave Troll
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    Cave Troll Bite the bullet, do your own thing. Contributor

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    @KhalieLa Well if you want to have BDSM and Fetish separate that is up to you.

    BDSM Big categories: Slave/Submissive, Master/Dom, Dominatrix/Mistress, Bondage (though this can be in non BDSM scenes as well)
    Technically these would be the Big categories of BDSM. Everything else can be mixed and matched within it. BDSM can also be classed either Light or Hard.

    As for layout and this will be crude in form, but It might make sense:

    Pleasures Meet the Page Normal Erotica Genre Erotica Fetish BDSM Custom Archives

    The first would basically be a Welcome, and explanation of what you are offering. A Featured Authors section is entirely up to you.

    If you are feeling particularly creative and can find some voice actors, you could do audio stories for an extra added fee as well.
    Just make it an option in Custom.

    Then all you really need is a good graphic and title to adorn the whole thing, after having a brief Age Restriction warning, and you're all set.
    I have seen on some Pro Domina websites, the use of a little animated welcoming screen before displaying the actual web page.

    Any more questions feel free to ask. :supersmile:
     
  16. doggiedude
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    doggiedude Contributing Member

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    I so want to be a voice actor reading erotica. Oh baby... I just looooove that.
     
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  17. Cave Troll
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    Cave Troll Bite the bullet, do your own thing. Contributor

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    @doggiedude maybe if they like the concept you could. I personally don't see why not. :)
     
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  18. Cave Troll
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    Cave Troll Bite the bullet, do your own thing. Contributor

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    According to word per minute calculator, 5K should take 38.5 minutes to read (this is at an average of 130 wpm). Not a bad amount of time to
    read a naughty little yarn aloud. :p
     
  19. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    You could look at https://www.allromanceebooks.com/ to see their list of categories along the left-hand side (erotica toward the bottom).

    But you might also want to click on a few of the categories and see how many stories are being offered for free (as promo). This site will be one of your competitors, I imagine, and it's already got a good-sized audience, lots of authors selling work through them, etc. What will your site offer that this site and others like it don't offer?
     
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  20. Cave Troll
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    Cave Troll Bite the bullet, do your own thing. Contributor

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    @BayView It is quite a nice and well put together site. But for somebody like me they simply don't cater to. Perhaps I really am into the Hard stuff.
    Though I don't know where I could find a book about Lezdom and bondage, with the Mistress duel wielding staple guns mercilessly upon her crying
    bound submissive. (And that isn't even the hardest thing I have seen.)
     
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  21. KhalieLa
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    KhalieLa It's not a lie, it's fiction. Contributor

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    @BayView I sent my son to the site and he replied, "We're making that, only we're going to do it better." I'm eager to see what is eventually produced.

    As @Cave Troll pointed out, our goal is to court those people with fetishes, fantasies, etc., that often get overlooked. We will not put "A large adult section in the back." All the freaky stuff goes in the front of the house. Also, we are only interested in short stories, not novels. And, we are offering custom fantasies.

    Also--Cave Troll - - my son really likes your comments, but he wants to know if you are a man or woman? I'm guessing the mention of Lezdom means you're a woman, but one never knows.

    @doggiedude give us time to build a site and attract authors before getting over eager about panting into a microphone. ;)

    For those of you with this preference, does this new category tree look better?
    upload_2016-9-21_16-44-4.png
     
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  22. Cave Troll
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    Cave Troll Bite the bullet, do your own thing. Contributor

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    Well according to the United States Army(born on post) , drivers license, and my mother, I am going to go with male. :supergrin:
    But if that answer ruins some of the fun of not knowing, then please feel free to believe what you wish too. :supersmile:

    I like the addition of dwarfism (quite a rare one indeed).:superidea:

    I like the category tree. @KhalieLa

    So I will circle back to one thought that had occurred to me, and that I made mention in short. Would there be a consideration
    for a fee to get an audio version of any story, provided voice actors could be rounded up to do such thing?
     
  23. KhalieLa
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    KhalieLa It's not a lie, it's fiction. Contributor

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    Cave Troll, you just made my day. A man reading Lezdom, what more do you need in life?

    As for audio editions, can't say at this point. Voice actors are not cheap and at this point we have no idea if we will have a profit margin that would accomodate that. Launching a new site is a big undertaking in and of itsself. I'm not opposed to audio versions, but we need the site up, running, and profitable before considering adding audio. At present we aren't even ready to make a call for submissions.
     
  24. Cave Troll
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    Cave Troll Bite the bullet, do your own thing. Contributor

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    @KhalieLa Sure if by read, that means watching a 40 minute video downloaded for free, that someone was nice enough to share from Queensnake.com, then sure. :p
    Though I have read all manner and sexually diverse stuff from Literotica and other sites.

    As for the audio story thing, I understand the financial side of it. Just something to consider down the road is all. :)
     
  25. KhalieLa
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    KhalieLa It's not a lie, it's fiction. Contributor

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    So I've assigned my son HW and told him to go buy porn. The reason being, we need to know about they typical purchase experience.
    It seems pay-pal is dead set against being used for "adult" sites, so we've set up a system for people to purchase stories and for authors to get paid using Stripe. He says it will make distributing royalties to authors super easy, but there is a fee. For a $1 down load that fee is 30 cents.

    Do you think consumers would be opposed to seeing something like this:
    Story $1; processing fee $0.30; total charge $1.30.

    Also the fee decreases as the purchase gets larger, so if someone wanted too, they could load $20 worth of credit on the site and choose stories they like here and there, then have them charged against the store credit. Do you think anyone would be interested in this?

    AND we need to come up with a domain name. We are open to suggestions.
     

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