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  1. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    UBI, The Next Step to Socialism in America?

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Lewdog, Jun 14, 2016.

    I found this article on Yahoo today that mentions UBI, which would be like a government assistance program for everyone in the U.S. whether they work or not. It's interesting because the man speaking about the program is a professor from Cornell University and he mentions it actually has backing from Democrats and Republicans, and that the idea goes back as far as Nixon. What kind of life could you live off of $1,000 per week?

    http://finance.yahoo.com/news/raising-the-floor-andy-stern-universal-basic-income-ubi-milton-friedman-social-security-003220195.html
     
  2. 123456789
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    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    I'm totally confused Lewdog. We can't get universal healthcare, education, or the rich to pay their fair share, sometimes it feels like we're not even getting our roads fixed, and you're telling me the government is actually considering giving every citizen 56,000$ a year?
     
  3. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    No, $52,000... there are 52 weeks in a year. :superlaugh:
     
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  4. Raven484
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    Raven484 Contributing Member

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    Wow, that's a good topic.
    Basically I think it would destroy the economy of any country. No one will want to go to work. If I was married, I would just start pumping out children. When they all hit 18 and would get the full amount, if everyone shared, you could live like kings. A family of ten would be commonplace in society. Who would want to farm? Who would want to build? Wages would be driven up just to get people off the couch. There could be no immigration anymore, you wouldn't have the funds to support them. Ingenuity would drop. Creativity would really suffer. We would be a nation of couch potatoes.
     
  5. 123456789
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    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    This is typical republican bull shit. It's amazing because I've just heard this argument. The child problem is an obvious fix. A universal income comes with certain requirements, maybe three years compulsory service, voter responsibility, and a limit in reproduction. It's really not that hard.

    The reality is that $52,000 is not a lot of money. Ambitious people are still going to work and creative people are still going to create. In fact, one could argue a UBI enables creativity and ambition by enabling all people to focus on their pursuits, not just those born into more favorable circumstances. How is someone with no education and a minimum wage job at Wal Mart expected to rise up exactly?

    As for those who are lazy, what's the difference between someone sitting at home collecting a paycheck and someone sitting in an office staring at Facebook, collecting a check book.

    As robots begin to take jobs, and they will, a UBI is going to become essential. It's not meant to give a free lunch, it's meant to ensure that all people are able to live a basic life. I don't see what's so wrong with that.
     
  6. Raven484
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    Raven484 Contributing Member

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    As robots begin to take jobs, and they will, a UBI is going to become essential. It's not meant to give a free lunch, it's meant to ensure that all people are able to live a basic life. I don't see what's so wrong with that.

    I hear your argument @123456789, but we are not yet at that point where robots are doing all the work. Life would become basic as you say for 90% of the people. College would still cost money. That Wal Mart worker will still not be able to move up, unless they are lucky. It would still be the same.
    If I was a farmer, and lived good on making 100k a year growing corn. If you gave me 52k more a year, maybe I would slow down and make just 75k of corn and still make out better. Things would happen like this all over the country. Why would I work harder if someone is going to give me free money. Its human nature.
    We give out welfare and food stamps. Do you see those people working harder to get out of there situation? I live on a street where there are 25 row houses, so 50 homes on my street. Including myself, there are 10 others working. The rest collect welfare and have been for at least the 15 years I have lived at my home. They have no incentive to improve.
    I am not college educated, I make a decent buck now because I worked my ass off to get a supervisory position. I know for a fact, unless I am extremely lucky, that if I lost my job I would have to take a pretty big cut in pay. To stop this, I have to work even harder.
    No one is going to want to work hard if things are given to them. For every one ambitious person, there are probably at least 10 that are not. If you go by where I work, the number would be at least 50 that have no ambition. One of the reasons I still have a job.
     
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  7. Raven484
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    Raven484 Contributing Member

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    And how is it so "Republican"? Both Dems and Reb. both agree that this idea should be looked at. You think Dems would learn the down points of a welfare society. Yes, people need some help sometimes to get by. But the welfare situation here now is not helping anyone move ahead. For every one person that pulled themselves out of it and made a better life, there are hundreds more not even looking for a job and just getting that check. If you took away welfare right now, there would be riots in the streets, and you know it. Welfare just makes the poor man more content with his situation.
     
  8. 123456789
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    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    At 52k per year no one would work a min. wage job at Wal Mart- let the robots do it.

    A basic income helps eliminate mind numbing low paying jobs. I say, let people pursue creative careers and if they can't find one, let them live decently anyway (basic income).

    Your argument about people not wanting to work leaves me skeptical. Since you gave me anecdotal evidence, mine is this, I know plenty of privileged children, and certainly a significant number of them don't want work, but I would not say most of them.

    The reality is, that high level jobs are more enticing than low level jobs. Why get off welfare if "working hard" means ten hour work days for a meager salary doing mind numbing work and being bossed around? That's counter intuitive.

    Do you want me to find you links about robots? It's closer than you think.
     
  9. Raven484
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    Raven484 Contributing Member

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    The only way to get rid of rich and poor is to make everything free. Everybody is entitled to exactly what everyone else has. Everyone gets their acre of land, everyone can design there own house. You can pick what car you want every 7 years. All school is free. The only stipulation would be you would have to be employed doing something to help society.
    True communism with no perks whatsoever given to anyone. It could be like the federation on Star Trek. They don't use money, everyone seems to be working. Shame its just a make believe TV show.
     
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  10. Raven484
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    Raven484 Contributing Member

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    You don't need to show the links, been reading some of them now. When that time comes it might work out for the best.
     
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  11. Raven484
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    Raven484 Contributing Member

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    I hear you on the rich kids. They are a big part of the problem. We glorify them in the media instead of tearing them apart. It's not all of them, but they need to be humbled.
     
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  12. Raven484
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    Raven484 Contributing Member

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    You can't win when thinking about the rich kids. Look at George W. Bush. Way overachieved and look what it got us. Lol.
     
  13. Raven484
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    Raven484 Contributing Member

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    Oh god, Trump and the Kardashians just came to my head. Maybe we should just let some rich kids just play with their toys. What a world!
     
  14. 123456789
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    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    Ideally, the super rich would pay for UBI. Very few people, if anyone, has ever really made contributions to this planet that are actually deserving of billions. Making the super rich pay would help trim off the excess fat of society and help alleviate the starving part. Ultimately, we want a society that strives to eliminate misery while optimizing output.
     
  15. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    It's a shame that many of the super rich like Bill Gates and Warren Buffet who have already gotten together and said that when they die all of their fortune will be donated, don't feel the same way about helping society.

    This type of thing could fund a UBI for years.

    http://money.cnn.com/2015/06/02/news/companies/giving-pledge-billionaires-buffett-gates/
     
  16. Cave Troll
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    Cave Troll Bite the bullet, do your own thing. Contributor

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    @Lewdog The article you posted in OP is a tad off, it is $1000 a month, not per week. But then again a grand a month would be livable and quite nice for someone like me. :p
     
  17. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    It's odd because the title of the article says $1,000 per week.

    Edit: They must have fixed it. I could still live off $1,000 a month, though I wouldn't be able to do much especially if they took away HUD and Food Stamps.
     
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  18. 123456789
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    123456789 Contributing Member Contributor

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    1,000 a week sounded lavish. 12,000$ a year sounds more than doable.
     
  19. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Especially doable if they get rid of some of the social programs they are already giving money for like Welfare, Food Stamps, and HUD (Section 8 Housing).
     
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