It's not just that, either. They don't give you any opportunities to do so, and it shows if you look carefully at what they're doing. They are just trying to create worker bees to run their industrialised ideology that fills their pockets.
I'm sure they like the top-heavy system, and it is much harder for less well off people. But wasn't it Thatcher who formally introduced adult learning schemes? I'm no Thatcherite by any means (quite the opposite) and I don't buy their 'Party for the Poeple' bullshit, but I don't think they really are only for the moneyed class. They just don't have a social consciousness. Which might be why their Big Society only affected small parts of the country.
It's quite possible. But back then, I don't think 'adult learning' meant what it does today. It was probably more of a way to get adults that came from poorer, more tradition backgrounds some basic education. Like GCSEs. Did you know they're implementing funding for post-graduate study in 2016. But the catch is, you have to be 30 or under to receive it, and guess who's 31 in 2016. Pisses me off. I did my degree in Business Studies as well, which is fucking useless unless you plan on teaching. I was hoping to do a Masters to get more specialised at a certain field, but I guess I'll be paying for it all myself.
Yeah, it's quite pricey. I can pay for the tuition fees, but funding myself for the year is the problem. I'm hoping too many people will complain about the age limit on the post-grad funding forcing them to remove it. Or at least increase the age threshold.
You can blame the government all you want but with hard work you get where you want to go. I'm tired of constantly hearing about how the government is making it soooo hard, people on benefits are being persecuted for blah blah blah, when did we become such a bunch of moaners?
Of course, family and friends, co workers even employers if they're willing. On top of all that you might get financial aid if you qualify. Still some folk will complain "i dont qualify!!!". Tough, someone will always fall the wrong side of the line. You cant help everyone.
The point is the government is supposed to invest in its people. You apply hard work in the opportunity, not to create the opportunity.
Sorry but that's bull***t, If the opportunity isn't there then you DO create it! Why should it be handed to you? What makes you special? The gov has 65 million people to look after, not to mention international affairs, why should they cater to your specific demographic?
No offence, but friends family and allowances is very superficial. Most people need all the help they can get from the NHS which is being sold off, from student support (the Tories scrapt ALS), from a miriad of small victories or defeats that create attitudes. You might think you could succeed with your mindset now without much help you didn't need to pay for, and you even might. But when you can't eat without a food bank, scared to get ill because you can't afford the hospital nor the time off work, and not succeeding academically anyway because you went to a struggling academy with 30 kids in a classroom, you'd have to be very special to have much hope.
You're a Tory supporter aren't you...? I can tell because your comment seriously defies the whole notion of ethics. Everyone deserves the opportunity to something, even if it's at the bottom of the barrel. That way, when they work hard at that opportunity, it opens up other opportunities.
I just wanted to moan a little, being from that there nation of moaners. Personally I love our little island, but it needs fixing. Big business and politics have rather spoiled things what what. Ok so I'm a professional graphic designer, I have a degree and 10 years under my belt. My girlfriend has a masters, but can't get work in her chosen profession, so she works in a supermarket on minimum wage. If that wasn't ridiculous enough, then, how about this, she doesn't pay tax. I do. So after tax, we get paid exactly the same amount. How is this a country that is working? I've worked really hard all my life, paid off my student loan, progressed up the ranks and given my free time to my employer, but I get paid as much as a 16 year old who failed his exams working in Burger King. Then I go to the corner shop for a pint of milk and am served by a fully qualified barrister. Something is broken.
I grew up in on a council estate in north London, i went to a poor school, i remember my mum and dad not being able to afford food every week and them almost being sent to prison for not paying their council tax, a lot of my friends and family were on benefits, but i wasnt happy with that so i started working, i had menial jobs growing up but i applied myself, i worked hard and i took the opportunities i made for myself. This isnt some kind of "oh look at me" bull but i need to highlight the fact that i'm not some rich kid or someone who "had contacts". I worked damn hard for my career, i worked 12-14hr shifts and commuted 2hrs each way so i could get ahead. I've switched career last year, i work for the NHS now and i'm studying physiotherapy. Its not easy, its hard work but its not "impossible" ffs All of this, without benefets, without rich parents or whatever. I worked hard for it so it makes me so f**king angry to hear people just moaning and moaning and moaning about how hard life is for them. I don't support any of them, I just get fed up of people always wanted everyone else to do everything for them. "Oh I'm so persecuted because the government wont give me any opportunities!" Well f**king go out and make the opportunity. Stop sitting on your ass and moaning.
And what about people who can't do that, who aren't as mentally resilient, or just aren't as lucky? And things like the NHS, would you privatize it if you didn't need it, or would you rather pay higher taxes but have it there? I'd happily give up half my earnings in taxes if it meant vulnerable people where not dying in hospitals or homeless. I'm a teacher, and I'm from a not unwealthy background, so this isn't me pretending I'm some working class hero or anything.
I come from a working class family. People from similar backgrounds wouldn't be able to afford some of the fees for education and training. You need the education or training to achieve a reasonable wage to put aside for such things; it's a contradictory loophole. BUT! With opportunities available, I was able to go back into education in my early twenties and, with this opportunity, work hard to achieve my goals. Though, like Sprirj said, it's difficult to get anywhere these days, even with the qualifications and skills. It seems contacts goes a long way these days.
Sorry, i was lucky? I resent that, i worked hard. There were setbacks, for example i had a bad motorcycle accident that kept me out of work for a month or two and i lived off credit cards and used up all my annual leave etc but i worked through it and paid them off when i was able. Some of those at risk people you mentioned, they are the worst offenders. The amount of money wasted on people that simply don't care about the cost is unbelievable. On case, a patient cancelled an appointment on the morning of her scan to "go shopping", she cost not only the wages of the staff but the cost of admin team, the time they spent making the appointment, cancelling, rescheduling etc and then the cost of the injection she needed which a single vial costs over a thousand pound AND stopped another person having that appointment. Similar examples happen every week. 70% are great, the rest couldn't care less how much they cost their NHS. Though they'd be the first to piss and moan if they didnt get what they wanted. What do you defined as decent wages? is 30k enough?
30K is a decent wage up north. Even teachers who already hold a degree and a PGCE only get 20-21k when they start. Most people usually sit between the 16-20k band here. Depends on the job and hours.
My last job i had 29 staff under me, everyone of them were on 25-30k. None of them had a degree or any qualifications (pertinent to the job), the only requirement to get the job was to be smart, hard working, be presentable, have common sense and have the right attitude. They worked long hours, 60hr week usually. Its hard slog in terms of hours but not hard graft. One of the most inspiring among them was a young polish guy, he was lived in a cheap one bed flat, saved his pennies, worked hard and studied law. He moved on to another career and met his other half, and now he earns much more doing the job he loves. So, what opportunities is the government not giving its people? everyone gets an education, everyone gets free healthcare, everyone can apply for (and hopefully get) jobs, if you cant work they give you benefits, if you fall out of work they give you job seekers allowance, if you cant pay your rent they will try help, if you lose your home they will try get you council housing. HOW MUCH MORE DO PEOPLE WANT? How about we all go to the slums in india, rural china, africa, some of the poorer EU countries, nepal, thailand etc etc etc and see how many opportunities they get?
You seem a bit naive to be honest, Lae. You live north of London, the wages are higher there, as are the price of goods, but the price of education stays the same no matter what. Do you really believe you could simple work hard, save up 27k plus a 3 years worth of living costs to do an under-graduate degree, then another 5.5k and a years worth of living cost to do a post-grad degree, because you really won't have a whole lot of time to work as you study. You could squeeze in a part time bar job that might buy you a weeks dinner, but that's about it. WE put people in power to create these opportunities for us; it's their job and responsibility. Hell, if I wanted to get a job and earn 20k a year, I could. But I don't want to slave in some shitty artificially lit office with zero prospects. I want to do something productive with my life, but simply working hard alone doesn't cut it. It's like trying to beat your way through a jungle rather than just taking the path. And as for poorer countries -- it's their responsibility to sort such things out. I live in England, a first world developed country, and opportunities are available, which is why many people flock here.
I grew up in north london, i dont live there now and yet im still studying and still working. The wages may be higher down here but working as a cleaner in a school for 6 odd pound an hour when i was studying in college isnt quite the "higher wages" you suggest, working on a building site on the weekends for £60 a day doing bloody hard graft isnt exactly a high wage is it? have you ever spent the entire working day lugging concrete boards up flights and flights of stairs and then going home absolutely shattered but still having to study? If im honest, i dont think half the people in this country work hard enough. We may be first world developed or whatever you want to call it but we cant just act like we've made it, life should be easy now, lets all sit back and be content and happy in our perfect jobs, lets all get paid more and work less and get fat from all our expensive food. I am in no way naive, do i really believe you could save up 27k and the living costs associated with it? damn right i do, i lived in a house share with an asian girl who did exactly that, she worked in a well know DIY chain and paid for her engineering degree as well as oversea's costs which is a damn sight more than what it costs us. So don't give me these excuses, i know its possible. I worked during my first time in uni, i got through my Bsc perfectly fine, if i had morning classes i worked in the evening, if i had evening classes i worked in the morning. Right, im off to bed. Work in the morning!
Wonder how long it took to save, the circumstances involved, and how much she loaned off the banks to do it. You're talking about part time work while you study, but we're talking about opportunities. You were given the opportunity to study. Everyone deserves these opportunities. You can't just work hard and an opportunity will arrive at your feet. I know people who have worked hard in the same job since they left high school 16 years ago, and they still earn crap pay and ride the same desk they have done for years. Hard work goes in tandem with opportunity. As I originally said, you don't work hard to make opportunities, you work hard given the opportunity.
You might resent that, but you were lucky. You where able to keep fighting and not slip into the nihilistic downward spiral. Some people don't have that strength. Or don't have the support to give them that strength. I did not mention wasted money at all. Where you came up with this is a mystery. I mentioned only homeless people or patients who die due to neglect, or that is who I was thinking about anyway. Even if I had mentioned them, fraudulent claments are known to be a small fraction of expenses. Most money that goes on benefits are pensions. I'd rather have a system that helped 100 people, and had 3 people who cheat, than no system so the cheaters don't get help, but neither do people who need it. The people you hear about you hear about because they are sure to annoy you, its to sell papers. I remember seeing on the news an interview with a student in London, saying without the incentive to work hard at college, why would he bother going? He can make £30,000 as a teacher many years down the line, or make £30,000 selling crack next week. And that's assuming he got a job in his specialism after his studies, which very possibly wouldn't happen. Some people will not think too much on if something is right or wrong, they'll do it if it's beneficial. Look at the path they walk before you judge. Again I say that as someone who didn't really need to work that hard compared to other people I know. There are hard working failures, and lazy successes. Don't think because someone lives in poverty it is because they don't work hard enough.
I'm in agreement with @Lemex, especially on the issue of cutting benefits to everybody because some people cheat. I worked for about 12 years in the NHS, and certainly encountered people who exploited the 'free' health care system for various purposes. However, the vast majority of patients were truly ill, needed it, and could not have afforded to pay for it if it wasn't free at point of need. I grew up in the USA, where you're on your own, buddy ...so I know what this feels like. People there are terrified of getting ill long-term because they end up losing their homes and all their savings to pay for it—and that's WITH health insurance. Without health insurance, they won't get treated except in a life-or-death emergency. (And they get billed for that later ...and it's thousands of dollars even for an ambulance, never mind a hospital stay.) And if they lose their jobs because of illness, there is very little in the way of a safety net. I'm speaking as somebody who never took any benefits of any kind on either side of the Pond, and always worked hard. I didn't earn much, and I was very lucky to have remained in pretty good health most of my days. But I know people who were definitely not as fortunate as me, and whose lives have been ruined by circumstances beyond their control. The problem is, UK jobs that are secure and pay a living wage are disappearing like snow off a dike these days. It's not possible for everybody who wants a decent job to get one, because THE JOBS AREN'T THERE. Hundreds of people apply for every position that gets advertised, but only one person gets the job. So folks are struggling to make ends meet, and that's just getting worse. Decent benefits are no longer a 'given,' and people who are very unwell (ie dying of cancer) are being assessed as 'fit for work.' This is terrifying. I'm glad that some people manage to keep going, but when you look at the proportion of millionaires at Westminster, compared to the proportion of millionaires in the general population, it's not hard to see why laws get passed to favour the rich. To take the 'I'm alright Jack' attitude, just because you've been fortunate enough to have worked hard and been paid for it—thus far, anyway—is not actually addressing the overall problem. I believe in a society that takes good care of members who are struggling, whatever the reason. I also believe in clamping down hard as hell on anybody who cheats the system ...whatever rung of the ladder they might be on. That goes for removing benefits from people who pretend to be unwell, get photographed hobbling around with a cane ...then get photographed on the same day running a marathon. I also believe in removing benefits from MPs who claim for expenses related to cleaning their duck ponds!
Is it true 5000 nurses were sacked from the NHS - where Lae now works? And man, having a Mum and Dad is pretty lucky. Lots of kids have just a Mum, or a Dad, but both? Eesh!
