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  1. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Unleashed Dogs and their Moron Owners

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by GingerCoffee, Aug 4, 2014.

    If you don't take your dog out walking off-leash, this doesn't apply to you. If your dog is under perfect (p e r f e c t) voice command, this doesn't apply to you. If you don't have a dog, this doesn't apply to you.

    Everyone else, what is friggin wrong with you? Your dog is your companion, it's not your human friend.

    My stupid neighbors, even after one of their dogs which they let wander into another yard unattended, was literally killed by the dog in that yard, still take their dogs out off leash. And the dog that died went through a painful 2 week long infection before it passed no less.

    So one of the moron neighbors owns a very large German Shepard, and I own two small poodle-terriers and one rotting on the bottom back fence. So she takes her dog out walking in the park behind the house, off leash in an on-leash only park where it promptly runs away from her and starts barking at my dogs and jumping against the rotted fence. They bark back and jump against the fence as well and push through a loose board, both of them getting out and getting in a big fight with the neighbor's fucking dog.

    Thank goodness for little favors, I had the padlock off the back gate and got to them before they were hurt, I think. We'll see.

    Dogs don't care if they're on a damn leash! They don't need to be free! If you want to run them, fine, do it in an off leash dog area. If you're a dog owner, it's your responsibility to protect that dog. That includes protecting them from dog fights.

    Stupid moron dog owners.
     
  2. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Thank you so...goddamned much! THANK YOU SO MUCH!!

    There's a woman in our neighborhood who lets her two yappy Yorkshire terriers out without a leash. Unattended. So they run around the neighborhood pissing on everyone else's lawns and yapping at everything that moves. I can't even let my own dogs sit out front (on leashes, mind you) or else they go ballistic. If I try to go for a walk while they're out there, they circle around me while yapping. One of them has a paralyzed front left leg which dangles uselessly. I don't know whether or not that was caused by a car, but if it did, then maybe that should be one huge frickin' clue!

    Here's the thing about dogs: they are stupid. Unless they are well-trained or savvy enough to figure things out themselves, they are stupid. They don't know how to survive in the human world. Anything up to giant, loud, metallic, fast things are potential playmates.

    Yorkshire terriers are just annoying, but what really gets me angry is when I see big dogs like Rottweiler or Pit Bull wandering around unattended. Now, I don't mean to smear these two breeds with the 'they are evil killers by nature' brush like certain sensational media would, but I would think big dogs especially should be on leashes because what if one of them decided to go after a smaller dog, or a child?

    Just...just what is so hard about keeping your dog on a leash!? It's not animal cruelty! It's keeping your dog from getting its stupid ass killed!
     
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  3. jazzabel
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    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

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    Dogs aren't stupid, but there are idiot owners who spoil their dogs and make them unbalanced. I've been walking my dogs on and off the leash for years, never had any issues because we trained each if them, it's the responsible thing to do. However, I think your anger is just fear dressed up, and dogs smell fear a mile away. So with that attitude, dogs will be singling you out as a threat, and you'll feel even more harassed, it's a vicious cycle. The only way in my experience, to get rid of the fear of dogs is to get one.
     
  4. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    I was griping about this to @Lewdog a couple of weeks ago. Long story short, my across-the-street neighbor has like 5 or 6 dogs that are not under voice command or trained in the least. Every time he opens his gate they erupt onto the neighborhood like canine orcs. The german shepherd has killed two other dogs in the neighborhood. His little min-pin sneaks into my yard through the minutest of gaps under my fence to piss and shit in my yard and to harass my dog. I spent two days nailing down 1" chicken-wire mesh in every gap I could find. He came to me as I was in the area of the fence in front of his house and when he asked if this was so my dog couldn't get out I told him it was so his couldn't get in, and would he like a receipt for the expenses and time. I never even turned to look at him from what I was doing. In Spanish culture, this is deeply offensive to do to an elder.
     
  5. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Hey, I'm not afraid of dogs, Jazz. I've got two of them. I just happen to obey leash laws and keep them both on leashes when I take them out for a walk. See, that's the thing about leash laws. You have to follow them. Why? Because not everyone likes dogs and wants an unleashed dog barreling at them, and not all dogs are savvy enough to survive the human world. It's a compromise. You can walk your dog out front, and that woman with her toddlers don't have to worry about a noisy Yorkshire terrier or a Rottweiler coming at them unattended.
     
  6. GingerCoffee
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    Just finished nailing up the chicken wire across the bottom half of the fence with the rotting boards as a temporary fix until I decide if I want to repair the fence or replace it. So far the dogs still don't seem injured. One was just neutered a few days ago and the wound is dehisced about an inch but I think he managed to do that licking.
     
  7. jazzabel
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    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

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    But, my dogs are perfectly fine around children. They also come when I call them. Like I said, I walk them on and off the leash, as appropriate. You never let your dogs walk or run off the lead in a dog-park?
     
  8. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    @Wreybies is "minutest" a word? :wtf: I can barely pronounce it. :rofl:
     
  9. Darkkin
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    Darkkin Reflection of a nobody Contributor

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    My boys, Rue and Zwi, are always leashed when in public and fenced securely in the backyard, (seven foot privacy fence around the whole thing...), when they are outside. My town is serious about leash laws, and I don't have any qualms about reporting loose or unsupervised dogs. Owners can be ticketed: $300.00 per dog. I don't have a problem with dogs; it's stupid owners I can't stand.
     
  10. GingerCoffee
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    WTF are you even talking about? The dog came after my dogs, not me.

    Yes, dogs chase prey. That doesn't have diddly squat to do with what happened today and it had even less than that to do with the incident when my dog was almost killed.

    The dogs bark at each other through the fence on a regular basis. I wish my dogs were afraid, they think nothing of barking at the biggest dogs in the land. I believe that is their natural defense tactic.

    And I knew the fence was weak, but nothing entices the dogs to jump up against the back fence. On the side where they do jump, I put a barrier up so they can't get all the way to the fence to push against the weak boards.

    This was similar to the time my dog was injured in that it happens so fast you can't stop it. That's the friggin problem with the off leash dogs. The owner just never thought their little fido would ever do that.:rolleyes:

    As soon as the neighbor went out her back gate, the dog darted off the trail and over to my back fence. In 2 seconds my dogs jumped against the fence and knocked the boards loose. In three seconds the three dogs were fighting.
    This is the hole my dogs got out through:
    Front, inside the yard:[​IMG]
    Back side, in the park:[​IMG]
    Close up of the part that gave way:[​IMG]


    When my dog was injured a couple years ago, I was walking them in the park on a trail. Seeing the approaching man and his dog, I thought he went to put his dog on its leash. In the meantime I put my dogs off the trail with me in front of them holding treats as I was teaching them not to bark at the dogs we passed. But before I even saw the other dog coming, it grabbed my dog and started shaking it.

    I had my dogs by their collars, they had no leeway on their leashes and I was right there. It only takes half a second for another dog to snatch yours up like that.

    I wasn't the least bit afraid of that dog. I was concentrating on training mine. And I was trying to train my dogs to be more sociable, I'm not afraid of dogs in the park. I'm pissed at their moron owners.

    As for the, 'my dogs don't hurt kids and they come when I call them,' that's the problem, people are so certain they know their dogs. It's a friggin dog, they do dog things. Even if a dog wouldn't hurt another dog or a kid, you just don't know, the wrong move, or something the dog reacts to. No one ever expects it will happen. That's the problem.
     
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  11. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    I wished our city cared a little more. I'm planning to go to the city council meeting tonight with pictures of my injured dog. I'm hoping they will at least increase the leash law patrols in the park but I don't have high hopes.
     
  12. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    Yes, it is. :) Think my new test. ;)

    But seriously, I have seen the min-pin dig a hole just big enough to squirm her little body through, sometimes have to actually wriggle sideways, flank to the ground, flapping like a landed herring, to get into my yard. It looks like it would actually be painful for her, but she just can't resist. And it pisses me off because all I have is yard, acres of it, literally, and I can't let me dog just enjoy the space without having to be on top of her and checking where she is and that sucks. My dog should be able to roam the whole of the property at her leisure, but she can't. I would love do one of these types of fence that are very traditional here:

    [​IMG]

    ... but the longest side of my property is the one running along the road. It's almost 700 feet. I priced a cement fence and I could almost build another house for the cost. I can't afford to replace the chain-link for something different. :/
     
  13. Darkkin
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    Darkkin Reflection of a nobody Contributor

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    Leash laws are in place as much for the protection of people as they are for the dogs. If owners ignore the laws, it is one time I don't hesitate to make my opinion known. I will do my level best to protect my dog from careless owners and ignorant people.

    When I walk Rue, I take him with his halty and his backpack, so people know he is working. I'm not allowed to roam around without him because of my heart issues, he knows before I do when something is wrong. (He doesn't care for children or people who are not politely introduced, he doesn't do the I'm a dog therefore I love all living things stereotype...). This gives him the space he needs and makes people actually ask before they even attempt to approach him. I trust my dog, other people, not so much...I don't trust them as far as I can throw them.
     
  14. jazzabel
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    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

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    Forgot to add before @Link the Writer , I always obey leash laws, however, in my country, it is perfectly legal to walk your dog off the leash in a dog park. I can't imagine a world where all dogs are forced by law to be on the leash every time they leave their doorstep. That would be just cruel to dogs.
     
  15. GingerCoffee
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    There are five designated off leash parks in this city alone. That fact makes the dogs off leash in an on-leash only park even more inconsiderate.
     
  16. Darkkin
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    Darkkin Reflection of a nobody Contributor

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    Dogs loose in designated dog parks and people disobeying or disregarding leash laws are two very different kettles of fish. Dog parks are an awesome way for dogs to be dogs, it is also a great way for them to socialize in a neutral zone. Owners know what they are walking into and the parameters of the endeavours. Having an aggressive, loose dog charge at you out of the blue is a totally different matter.

    No pet owner has the right to take that peace of mind away from responsible dog owners because they are ignorant, careless, or just plain lazy. Your dog does damage to someone or something, you are responsible. Dogs are dogs and they will react to stimuli. People aren't perfect so why do they assume their precious pets will be?
     
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  17. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    People think if their dog charges at you but it doesn't bite, that you should not get upset. They can't understand how the fact they know it, but the fact you don't, is a big difference.
     
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  18. Wyr
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    Even when I was a kid and we lived way out in the boonies, our dogs where always fenced in or on leashes. The only exception was my mom's teacup poodle who was maybe 4 pounds and who my mom would let outside, supervised, for a minute or two, just long enough to do her business. It was Nebraska though, and there was nothing but cow pastures and cornfields for miles and miles. Mom was more worried about her getting eaten by a coyote than she was about her getting away.

    Even years later, after we moved into town, mom raised my sister and I to know how to act around dogs, both our own and strange ones wandering loose. (Ironically I've only been bitten once by a dog, which was my own stupid fault for trying to break up a fight, whereas feral cats have attacked me on multiple occasions.) I would never let one of our dogs loose, regardless of its size or temperament. Even if you don't care about other people, it's the best way to protect your own pet.

    We used to have a dog who was completely fine in the house; she was friendly when people came to visit, she was super smart, she could recognize and obey a dozen different voice commands, but she was absolutely psychotic when she got outside. Small dogs, small kids, people on bikes, people rollerblading, almost anything could set her off and she would lunge and fight the lead and go absolutely frothing-at-the-mouth-crazy trying to chase them down. We had to switch to a gentle leader (type of head halter) because she would nearly strangle herself whenever we had her on a normal collar. Obedience school helped her somewhat, but even there I had to keep her well in hand and away from the little dogs. She couldn't care less about big dogs or adults, but she had a super high prey drive and if she saw anything small or fast moving (including children,) she would be on it in a second. I still consider her a good dog, when managed properly, and she has since passed away, but I shudder to think what would have happened if she had ever gotten off-leash.
     
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  19. Darkkin
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    Darkkin Reflection of a nobody Contributor

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    I ended up with 37 stitches in my thigh as a teenager because of a loose dog 'who was just playing'. A chocolate lab charged my Shibas looking for blood and caught me instead. Later, we came to find out that this was the third time this dog had attacked something. It didn't get the chance to do it again. I still have that scar, and people wonder why I have issues about careless pet owners.

    Dogs are like toddlers, mobile and precocious, you can trust them up to a certain point, but they require supervision. If there is a way into trouble many dogs will find it. Too many owners simply don't care.

    Vigilance is the best defence. Assume people are going to do something careless or stupid and you're prepared. Most days people will surprise you, by actually doing the responsible thing, but there will always be those who don't think the rules apply to them. I pity the pets who end up with those owners. More often than not, these are the pets that end up hit on the road, or in shelters because they get lost.
     
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  20. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    My general point is that dogs are dogs. Even the most well-trained dog will go absolutely berserk if the right buttons are pressed. All dogs, from my understanding, still have their primal canine instincts locked away in them. Domestication didn't eradicate those instincts, it just tamped them down. A dog sees a small creature and their instincts tell them, "Prey!" Domestication tells them whether it's human or not. I know I'm painting dogs out to be monsters, but believe me, this is not what I'm trying to do. I'm just saying that dogs are not humans. They're not little humans on four legs in a fur coat. They're the result of thousands of years of human domestication; if we still have bits of our caveman instincts locked away in us, then they sure as shit still have bits of their ancestral canine instincts locked away in them. So if I see a giant dog almost as big as I am, I'm going to hope like hell it's a well-trained dog, or it's on a leash because I can't reason with a feral dog like I could a human.
     
  21. Darkkin
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    Darkkin Reflection of a nobody Contributor

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    Respect the fact dogs are predators, even small ones have the ability to do serious damage. People forget this fact, even house cats have been known to scavenge off the remains of their owners. They are companions, but they are not people, for which, I for one, am extremely grateful. They love unconditionally, but they all have limits.

    They cannot rationalize, people can. Animals run on instinct and intuition, by bringing them into civilized society it is our responsibility to protect them.
     
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  22. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Exactly, dogs and cats are great companions and love unconditionally, but they are still carnivores with ancient hunting instincts embedded in them. We brought them to the modern world, we need to help them accommodate to the modern world.

    ...And with that said, my cat just jumped onto my lap. :D
     
  23. GingerCoffee
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    There are some dogs, like seeing eye dogs, for example that I would trust their training. It's just that too many people believe their dogs meet that kind of training standard when so many of them do not.
     
  24. Darkkin
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    People will have to continue learning the hard way at the expense of responsible pet owners. Overweening confidence and entitlement, coupled with ignorance are a bane. Just like with driving, being a defensive pet owner is the best way to make a difference. If you see something report it. Bring these owners to the attention of officials, fines and rehomings can benefit the animals as much as the neighborhood. It might seem harsh, but some people should not be pet owners.

    I keep up with the humane societies in my area, and several dogs that had been roaming loose were brought in and adopted out to responsible homes. The before and after pictures are rewarding, but there will always be idiots among us.

    That being said, Rue is asleep on my toes...and the cat is giving me feline death glare because of it...
     
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  25. Ben414
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    As someone who has done political canvassing (going door to door to talk to people for those who don't know), I can appreciate owners who keep their dogs on leashes and owners who either keep their dogs inside or in closed off areas outside. Unfortunately, there are way too many owners who allow their dogs to roam free outside without supervision. Luckily, I have never been bit, but I know multiple people who have.
     
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