Using Lyric Quotes

Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by CharlieVer, Mar 2, 2009.

  1. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    no, you didn't... all you did was 'register' your already existing copyright there... read the basic info again and you'll see what i mean...

    yes... you can mention characters and shows freely... you just can't quote significant amounts of dialog without permission... and no, there is no stated specific amount you are allowed to use... it's a grey area that would only be addressed if litigation ensues...

    What if two of my characters are watching the Addams Family on T.V., and discussing a particular scene, or mention some trivia from the show? Is that acceptable?

    ...yes... again, within the limits noted above...

    ...no, it's not, as long as you don't use their actual dialog...
     
  2. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    ...parody is generally allowed... see that section of copyright site for particulars...
     
  3. Rei

    Rei Contributor Contributor

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    I can't imagine why parody in that sense would be an issue. Weird Al generally gets permission out of respect for the people he is doign a parody of. On the other hand, he did a parody of Gangster's Paradise, and was under the impression that the original writer was okay with it. Turns out he wasn't. If there had been an issue with copyright, I'm sure he would have sued, but he didn't.
     
  4. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Once damages have been awarded, they can attach current and futire assets, and add the costs of future court actions to collect from you.

    For any grey areas, you should either make sure to avoid any borderline infringement, or get expert advice.

    I would not trust any single book for anything at all questionable. Would you trust a do it yourself guide on criminal law if you were charged with a felony?

    There is a ray of sunshine, though. If you publish through a real publisher (not self publishing of Joe's Discount Publsjicating House), they will undoubtedly have their own in-house literary legal department who can address any concerns you may have. But if iyour manuscript contains much riosky material, chances are the publisher will say. "No thanks" to your manuscript anyway.
     
  5. CharlieVer

    CharlieVer Contributor Contributor

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    How do I know where the borders are, or what gray is?

    As I've said... how do I even know for sure, I can say the word "pants"?

    It's better than guessing. Or making myself crazy, being paranoid about every word, like say, "pants."

    And I haven't been charged with anything. To the best of my knowledge, I haven't even done anything wrong.

    I started to write something long, but I don't want to be up late again, I'm tired and going to bed earlier tonight. All I ask is one thing, and I do know you're trying to steer me right with your best advice and I know you have my best interests at heart, and it's not that I'm trying to challenge you, but I just really need to know...

    All I ask is this: Please define "grey." I cannot follow your advice, if I don't know what "grey" is.

    The reason I want to read the book is not because I'm being metaphorically charged with a felony, but because I want to learn what "grey" is. I want the basics, a basic knowledge of the subject, and may be a little more. Copyright 101.

    In other words, suppose you met someone from another planet, never heard of copyright. How would you explain it to them? If they literally thought, perhaps "pants" is a grey area? You won't tell them to spend money and hire a lawyer to ask the lawyer about the word "pants," will you? Of course not. That's because "pants" isn't in the gray area. Okay. What is in the gray area?

    Might it not be a bad idea for such a person, the person from another planet, to read a book and get the basics, before hiring an expensive lawyer to ask if the word "pants" is an infringement of copyright?

    Surely you don't think reading a book on the subject is a bad idea? For someone who's not entirely sure about the word "pants"?

    I could be wrong (that's why I want to learn what "grey" is) but I strongly suspect that virtually everything in my entire book is way, way, way in the "safe" zone. My book is actually very original, despite a few pop-culture-references which, I (now) suspect, aren't very grey at all, but totally in the safe zone.

    (The lyric I had in there was probably grey, but it's been cut.)

    Learning what "grey" is will help me know for sure. The more I reflect on it, and the more I'm reading other websites (including a closer reading of copyright.gov, earlier today) the more I think I'm worrying over things which are actually quite safe.

    By the way, I'm also counting on that ray of sunshine you mention... I have high hopes for my book, and I'm hopeful that it will be picked up by a good publisher in a few years.

    Thanks again,
    Charlie
     
  6. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    don't bedevil cog to make black or white out of what he's already made clear is 'grey'!

    the only one who can answer your specific questions with any level of legal accuracy is a literary attorney, plain and simple... if you can't afford one, then if you have any sense, you'll NOT quote anyone's copyrighted material or parody anything... period...
     
  7. CharlieVer

    CharlieVer Contributor Contributor

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    I wasn't talking about quoting or paradying.

    I was talking about pop-culture references.

    Most of what I was talking about, others responded and said, "that's completely safe."

    I'll read a book on the subject, anyway.

    Charlie
     
  8. Clamsofcorn

    Clamsofcorn New Member

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    Ok, I have a question. In my current novel, I have a short snippet of a song that is meant to be recognized as part of a lyric. it goes:

    The congregation of urban prophets stared at him. The god shuffled his feet.
    “Ummm… Have you heard the one about the boy who woke up with blue hair?”

    This of course is a reference to the song: God Shuffled His Feet by Crash Test Dummies
    full lyrics: http://www.elyrics.net/read/c/crash-test-dummies-lyrics/god-shuffled-his-feet-lyrics.html Is this considered fair use? Do I have to ask permission? If so, how would I go about it?
     
  9. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    You do need to obtain permission. Contact the lyricist or his/her agent and request permission. You may need to pay for the privilege, depending on whether the lyricist wants free publicity in your book or feels they are adding more marketability to your book than they are gaining from its inclusion.

    Fair use applies primarily to scholarly works (citing as an example) or reviews, not to works of fiction.
     
  10. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    cog...
    since none of that is a direct quote of the lyrics, no permission is required... making an oblique reference to a song lyric is not the same as quoting from it...
     
  11. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    You're right, Maia. I didn't look closely to see that the "quote" was not an actual quote.
     
  12. Phantasmal Reality

    Phantasmal Reality New Member

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    I think it's a shame that people get so up in arms about someone else giving their work free exposure with good intentions. If you're a big-name who's already made millions off your genius, cut the little guys some slack, especially when they're paying tribute to how good you are by referencing (key word) your work in their own. I'd be thrilled just to be at the point where my song/book/whatever is at pop culture status.
     
  13. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Right. Now look at it as someone whose music is already a chart topper, and the lyrics are being used to increase sales of a schlock novel. Worse yet, the association with your novel is hurting your music sales, especially because the context of its inclusion sends a very different message about your lyrics.

    Increased exposure isn't always beneficial.
     
  14. Clamsofcorn

    Clamsofcorn New Member

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    Thanks Cog and Maia, you guys are great!
     
  15. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    you're quite welcome, coc!... and thanks for the kind words...
     

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