Using 'now' in past tense

Discussion in 'Word Mechanics' started by Catjohnny, Feb 8, 2014.

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  1. Catrin Lewis

    Catrin Lewis Contributor Contributor Contest Winner 2023 Community Volunteer

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    Shirley, by Charlotte Bronte. :-D
     
  2. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    Being in the public domain means you can freely distribute the novel; you still have to attribute the quotes to the author.
     
  3. David K. Thomasson

    David K. Thomasson Senior Member

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    GOLD STAR for you! Everybody knows Jane Eyre, but relatively few seem to be acquainted with Charlotte's other great novels.
     
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  4. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    But if you're posting trivia for people to guess the work and the author it would be silly to do that up front.
     
  5. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    Put it in a spoiler tag or something. You can't just post passages without attribution.
     
  6. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Nonsense. Then no game show or newspaper trivia column could ever pose such a question without giving away the answer along with the question? Bizarre.
     
  7. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    The answers to trivia questions always appear at the bottom of the page or somewhere below the questions themselves. Imagine if a newspaper posted quotes from various books for its trivia column and said, "We'll post the answers tomorrow." That sort of thing wouldn't fly because it would be considered plagiarism. If you can find some law or something that states otherwise, I'll be more than happy to change my mind.
     
  8. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    There is no legal problem with it, especially from works in the public domain. If you can find a law that says otherwise, I would like to see it. Exactly what law do you think prohibits this, anyway? You could certainly have a newspaper pose a quote and provide the answer the next day.
     
  9. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    Wouldn't that be plagiarism, though? Even if you have the intent to attribute the quote at some later time, what's stopping the author of the quote from pressing charges the second you post the quote? What would you say? That you intended to attribute the quote at some later time? What constitutes a suitable "later time"? What if I post a quote and attribute it to the author a year later? Would that be OK, too?

    Since you deal with stuff like this in your job (if I'm not mistaken), I'm assuming you know what you're talking about. But I think there are way too many problems with your approach.
     
  10. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Doesn't plagiarism involve passing off the work as one's own? That doesn't happen in this case. Even though the attribution isn't immediate, it is clearly stated that it is not the work of the person posting. Also, we should distinguish plagiarism from legality. Not every instance of plagiarism would violate the law.
     
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  11. David K. Thomasson

    David K. Thomasson Senior Member

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    "Civilization had too many rules for me, so I did my best to rewrite them."

    --

    "The young man knows the rules, but the old man knows the exceptions."

    --

    "If you obey all the rules you miss all the fun."

    --

    "If I'd observed all the rules, I'd never have got anywhere."

    --

    "Rules are not necessarily sacred. Principles are."
     
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  12. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    Also, my English teacher used to test us with quotes from famous works reproduced on the test page, and we didnt get the answers for a week or more :)
     
  13. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    Hmm. That's really counter-intuitive (for me at least) since it's not immediately apparent whether or not the person is intending to pass off someone else's work as his own. I could post a bunch of quotes, and if I ever got caught, I could claim that I intended to attribute the quotes to the real author at some later point in time. I find it odd that such a defense could work, if even in theory. I'll have to look into this some more.
     
  14. Wreybies

    Wreybies Thrice Retired Supporter Contributor

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    *clears through forcefully*

     
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  15. David K. Thomasson

    David K. Thomasson Senior Member

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    Thank you! :p
     
  16. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    Oops. Removing off-topic post.
     
  17. lostinwebspace

    lostinwebspace Active Member

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    @Lewdog, people are attacking your assertion that you should never use past tense because you were incredibly unclear in your original post:

    If you're gonna make a blanket statement about writing in the past tense, you can't get ruffled when you don't qualify your statement until later. Novels, novellas, short stories--you made no mention of length, and since you qualified it, people still refuted the statement. There's nothing wrong with past tense in creative writing, and if you say authors should avoid using past tense as much as possible like in your first post, don't be surprised when people argue against you. Cuz "as much as possible" sounds like you mean no matter what, including length.

    And unverifiable personal experiences, opinions, and word-of-mouth don't equal evidence, so you can't cite your professors here and expect people to fall in line. One site that contradicts everything people know about writing probably won't sway anyone either.

    With that said, this is why people are arguing with you: the vast majority of fiction--and the vast majority of successful fiction--is past tense. Length doesn't matter. It is 1000+ pages of past tense. Animal Farm is a little guy around 100 pages of past tense. The Harry Potter books are all written in past tense, and they're all pretty weighty. I'm reading a book called Small Miracles that clocks in at almost 370 pages, also past tense. It's not a work of art, but publishers thought it was good enough for print. Koontz, Steele, Orwell, King...they all used past tense and they're incredibly successful. That's evidence supporting past tense, books of different lengths. If books written in past tense were weak, publishers wouldn't want to print them in such overwhelming quantities, and writers wouldn't want to write those books.

    @Catjohnny, there's nothing wrong with using "now" in a past-tense book, but take it on a case-by-case basis if the word is needed. I'd disagree with mammamaia's response to some (not all) of your examples, but that could just be opinion or my own personal mind's ear.
     
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  18. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    @Lewdog, even in the case of short fiction, I don't think your statement is true. As it happens, I find present tense writing irritating - just my own personal taste. But the idea that one tense is "weaker" than another, or that such "weakness" somehow fades as a work gets longer, doesn't even make sense.
     
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  19. Garball

    Garball Banned Contributor

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    When will then be now?
     
  20. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    May the Schwartz be with you!
     
  21. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Hey no problem. I thought this was a forum where people could share their opinions and past experiences. Even if I did name some professor at Ohio St. or some other school would that have really mattered? Are you guys going to know them?

    I'll be honest and tell you that this same sentiment, about staying away from past tense in short stories was reiterated to me by several people on another writing forum. If you can't see that something in present tense has a faster speed and has more impact than present tense...I can't argue that with you.

    Fact is, present tense is more difficult to write correctly without bouncing through tenses, so many people try to avoid it.

    As for now, I'll just go back to trying to be funny, because as I see there are too many professional writers on this forum for my opinion to count. :)
     
  22. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    @Lewdog, maybe if you posted some examples and/or elaborated on your claim, it might help us understand better.
     
  23. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    I posted a link from a professional in this thread already that was on Yahoo. If you read the article it mentions the same things I said. It's not someone's blog, it's actual article on Yahoo.
     
  24. Steerpike

    Steerpike Felis amatus Contributor

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    I like either past or present tense. I write both, and I'm happy to read both. I don't think one is necessarily more impactful or immediate than the other. At least, not to me as a reader. If the writer did his job correctly, they both work the same on me as a reader, in terms of pulling me into the story, or making an impact.
     
  25. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Here is an example:

    http://crofsblogs.typepad.com/fiction/2007/06/present_tense_o.html
     

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