Ginger I'm not savvy with quotes but let me try to respont point point. 1. Most journals provide abstracts free of charge. An abstract does not count as the actual paper. 2. see bottom 3. I didn't mean collect data, I meant produce data. Sorry for confusion. 4. Agree. 2. There are other ways to learn research than formal education, I'm sure, but for it to be even comparable, it better require weekly presentations on papers in front of experts in the field, 8+ hours a day doing/ reading research and or practicing, exams, both paper and oral, working on projects in groups, having daily scientific discussions with proven scientists. God bless the exceptions, but with the spread of the internet, excess time (at least in US.), and the self absorbed, and in general semi narcissistic culture of our time, too many people honestly believe they can become "pretty good" at basically anything they want to throw a few hours into here and there. There's two things that even the smartest of individuals can't get on their own. Discipline, the kind formed when your living depends on it, and institution. I'm sure there are dumb doctors out there, but my faith isn't so much in the individual as it is in the institution. I believe that the institution will weed out the inept, force the lazy to get their shit together or leave, and shape "normal" thinking into true critical thinking. More so, there are just thousands of little things that get adopted into an institution, and passed on to its followers, that an individual hobbyist will never see. On one hand, I think it's great that "knowledge" has become so publicized, that you don't have to spend four years of university to read about quantum mechanics. These are wonderful things that everyone should be privy too. On the other hand, every time some layman starts saying how, "because of quantum mechanics," there's a reality where you were killed by a car, and a reality where you weren't, well, let's just say there's nothing more embarrassing than an arrogant public that throws around terms they only understand on the most superficial level. Another thing an institution does (not always, but often) is eliminate arrogance. I don't know specifically how that translates to the medical field (Jazzabel can tell you better than I), but I'm willing to bet its similar.
Thousands of the medical publications are open access, meaning the whole paper is online free of charge. And I'm not sure who you think is uneducated in this discussion, so I don't know if we are talking about apples and oranges or if you too are under the misconception advanced practice nurses are merely vocational school trained as opposed to advanced university degreed? This branched-off discussion began with the suggestion advanced practice nurses had nothing close to a physician's education. In the US, advanced practice nurses manage anesthesia in the OR. They do this independently of physicians. They provide pediatric and family practice medicine including exam, diagnosis and prescribing medications and treatment. They often staff the emergency department and independently manage patients, you may never see a doctor when you go to an ED. In Australia and in Alaska, advanced practice nurses make up the bulk of the rural medical teams that fly to remote areas and provide most of the medical care. Nurse practitioners make up the bulk of the medical staff at Planned Parenthood, and midwives independently manage childbirth in many countries. Advanced Practice Nurses at Cedars Sinai Hospital Some advanced practice nurses practice in medical surgical specialties that not only see patients in the hospital, they are typically the ones on call at night in any large hospital in the US. And they also do the bulk of the pre-op physicals on patients and manage many areas of complex patients. A clinical nurse specialist will manage complex chronically ill patients. The physician will see the patient at regular intervals but the nurse manages the day to day care of the patient.
I have been vaccinated against various diseases since I was a child. Side effects have included: Living long enough to be diagnosed with autism Living long enough to be exposed to other diseases instead Living long enough to be exposed to the same diseases anyway Living long enough to ... And I seriously dare somebody on this thread to tell me that these side-effects were "unfortunate," or "undesirable," or whatever else you can come up with. This is, after all, a forum specifically created to aid in the creativity of those who wish to inflict fictions against the real world
Ginger, you misunderstand me. As I said in my original post to t trian, I am replying to him about a general belief of mine. I exempted you from it as I do now . Your responses have been good and I am in no way challenging you specifically at all. In fact , I recognize your expertise , in medicine,based on what you have said about it. Sorry for derailing the thread.
In the spirit of... well, the more free-spirited regulations on this board, I think slight derailments like this are OK as long as they remain civil etc. as has been the case here. I think you and I may be talking of the same thing with different names and different things with the same name. I see "hobbyist" or "amateur" as anyone who doesn't earn his living practicing that "hobby." To me, professionals are those who practice the same thing for a living. So, e.g. if I graduate from the uni with a degree in English philology but end up a rock star instead, I wouldn't consider myself a professional linguist even though I have the education and the degree. I also wouldn't consider a guy a professional boxer even if he won all the amateur championships in the world and could beat many a journeyman in the pro cirquits. I think coaching is a pretty good example of how "hobbyists" can bypass an academic degree as there are so many examples of this. For instance, KaTrian's brother has the degree usually required of coaches, Biomechanics, Exercise Physiology, Science of Sport Coaching, and Fitness Testing, yet several people (average ones, like Mirjami Seppälä, Esa Sievinen, and more extreme cases like Richard Williams), many of them ex-competitors without that degree, do the same job, many of them very successfully.
