Verbal Assaults By Bullies Can Do Much Harm

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by MainerMikeBrown, Oct 17, 2013.

  1. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    not always, cog... only in some... sadly, for all too many others, it injures or destroys... and what may be merely an annoyance to some can be unbearable trauma to others...

    too many recent child suicides resulting from bullying have proven this to be true...
     
  2. Wild Knight

    Wild Knight Senior Member

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    I WISH that I can say that trauma built my character. All it did was turn me from someone previously cheerful and outgoing and far more sociable to... well, this: being distrustful of people, and especially toward males. I automatically assume that people are racist toward me, and so I veer off sidewalks to avoid them when I see them coming. I'll also avoid a grocery store aisle if I see someone there, and go to another aisle until they're gone. Bullying only turned me into this anxious person who won't even initiate a "Hello" unless I feel that they're friendly.

    I guess that the one of the good things it taught me was the neutral viewpoint, and if what people say about me doesn't at all apply to me, I laugh it off, especially when they have to make things up about me if they can't find anything on me to use against me. I empathize with others, too, though it's usually not enough to where I'll jump to someone's defense if I see someone being bullied.

    Some character I turned out to be: an overly-anxious, paranoid coward.
     
  3. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I probably should have been clearer. It's more accurate to say that trauma transforms character. Whether the transformation comes out positive in the balance is a complex process, beyond prediction.

    Without trauma, or at least crises, to overcome, there really cannot be growth. One of the fundamentals of stress management is that although too much stress is a bad thing, there is also such a thing as too little stress. Without stress, motivation struggles. Similarly, in the absence of crises, coping mechanisms do not develop.

    It's perhaps a bit astray of the topic, but maybe not. Bullying should not be tolerated, but cocooning from all possible offense or injury can be just as bad.
     
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  4. DPVP

    DPVP Active Member

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    your lack of denying your straw man is duly noted.
     
  5. DPVP

    DPVP Active Member

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    my replies are in bold.
     
  6. T.Trian

    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Supporter Contributor

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    Sheesh, this turned into another damn novel, but whatever, here goes:

    Welcome to the human race. If you look at many stories about heroes, they often start out as these timid, awkward individuals, but over the course of the story, gradually evolve into heroes. This usually happens through development: they learn new things, become better at some things, gain new experiences (positive and negative) etc. What's common with many heroes is that they keep going despite failures and adversity, they don't give up.
    That doesn't mean you shouldn't choose your battles, because that's only smart (in Finland we have a saying "don't beat your head against a wall," implying the wall will still stand long after you've cracked your skull against it, the result a pointless sacrifice), but you should be honest to yourself about it instead of doing what a lot of guys do: "Oh, I could've taken him but I just didn't want to get my good suit dirty." How is it cowardice to say "nah, don't think I can crack that brick wall with my head"?

    I've buggered off when facing three guys my hunch told me could've kicked my ass if I stayed in the confrontation. I don't really see that as an act of cowardice, but as an act of love (I know, weird, but bear with me): I don't want to be separated from the person I love, so I'm responsible for keeping myself alive and healthy for that reason. That means I have to choose my battles and be realistic about the risks I take or avoid. Then again, I also see beating the snot out of some drunken shit as an act of love too: I'd rather run, but if I can't, for whatever reason, and violence is the only way to ensure I get home to my loved ones (or ensure they get home with me) in one piece, then I do what needs to be done or go down trying.
    But this is just one perspective of many that are out there, another way to look at "cowardice."

    I think Cus D'Amato put it very well:
    “I tell my kids, what is the difference between a hero and a coward? What is the difference between being yellow and being brave? No difference. Only what you do. They both feel the same. They both fear dying and getting hurt. The man who is yellow refuses to face up to what he’s got to face. The hero is more disciplined and he fights those feelings off and he does what he has to do. But they both feel the same, the hero and the coward. People who watch you judge you on what you do, not how you feel.”


    That's why I think kids (and adults) should get exposed to hardship and adversity in a somewhat more controlled environment. Sports are a good example (especially contact sports) where kids have to face challenges and overcome the feelings of fear those challenges provide. Competitions are great for this purpose but they aren't necessary if the activity is challenging enough as it is.
    Performing arts are another example: there's a lot of competition among musicians, actors etc. and then there are the actual performances, having to find the courage to step on that stage and perform in front of an audience.

    The feelings those situations evoke are the exact same as they'd feel in, say, a confrontation, be it verbal or physical: the body can't tell the difference between a fight, a speech in front of your class, going to ask your boss for a raise, or playing a few songs at a local club. That's why such activities are great practice on how to deal with actual confrontations on a psychological level (successfully dealing with physical confrontations, on the other hand, requires luck or skill, but who wants to rely on luck when their lives could be at stake?).

    I remember the time when I trained BJJ and I was the second-smallest guy in the group at 6'1 / 180lbs, i.e. I was wrestling with real-life monsters. One of the guys was so big and strong, grabbing him felt like grabbing a damn brick wall. But it was very rewarding to always have to psych myself just so I'd have the courage to go train with them. I was always afraid because training there hurt; there wasn't a single session that didn't end with some new bruises and aches and pains, but you sort of grow to love that feeling of "fear," adrenaline surging in your veins, sharpening your senses.

    The rush can feel so good, you're actually happy when you get that adrenaline dump. A friend of mine laughed at the grin I had on my face when we were about to tussle with a drunken ass and his skinhead friend high on crank or whatever it was that made him so jittery. I didn't even realize I was grinning when the confrontation had gotten to the point of "oh yeah? Let's go then, let's fucking do it, come on, you cunts!" Sure, it was scary and my knees were jello, but the adrenaline rush felt great too. Kinda zen, actually.


    And sometimes the beating will leave you emotionally and physically incapacitated for the rest of your life. Or you get killed. There have been instances around here where a group of school kids has ganged up on one kid and beaten him to death, literally jumping on his head with both feet while he's unconscious.

    What about that immigrant dad who was beat up in his own yard (by skinheads) while his wife and kids watched through the kitchen window? Or that Swedish dude who got booted in the face and suffered brain damage, can't work or lead a normal life anymore. Those guys must have gotten tons of character from their experiences... or they could have lived perfectly acceptable lives, building character through other kinds of adversities, if some dick just hadn't decided to have some fun at their expense.

    Seriously though, could you elaborate a bit? Because right now, to me, it looks like you're saying all people react to adversity in the same way, i.e. they grow and thrive, but surely that's not what you mean? Because, well, we're all different and all that jazz, yeah?


    The way I see it, there are just some people out there who don't know their place and need to learn it the hard way.
     
  7. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    another blanket statement/claim that i cannot accept as gospel without ample evidence, cog...

    and what do you consider 'growth' to be?

    [not intending to be contentious today, good buddy... but my virgoness just can't let claims of supposed 'universal truths' go unchallenged... love 'n hugs, m]
     
  8. Cogito

    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    I consider it the behavioral equivalent of Newton's first law. Without applied forces, a body remains in motion (or motionless) without change in velocity. Behaviorally, with no applied stresses, there is no impetus for growth.

    Growth is the development of a system of values, the means to cope with adversity, and empathy. A child begins life centered completely on self. As it is, some children never grow beyond the instant gratification phase, through morality based on avoiding consequences and morality based on adherence to order, to morality based on empathy and the greater good.

    Growth through the moral spectrum is only one aspect of character. Similar argumanets apply to other aspects of development, in the absence of driving stimuli.

    No offense taken, Maia. I'm not particularly in favor of a debate section, so I try to follow the advice of one of my professors in regard to speeches: "Be brief, and be gone."
     
    Last edited: Oct 22, 2013
  9. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh

    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

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    Trust me, without bullying from peers, there is still tons of applied stresses in a child or teen's life.
     
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  10. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I was a teenager only some three years ago, and I remember being stressed was around exam times, and my first year of university, and I think that's it. I didn't know real stress until I was 20, and I was suddenly living with people I had known for just less than a year - and was sharing bills and rent, while working, and working toward a BA degree; while trying to keep a relationship going with a girl where it went from seeing her every day to seeing her once a month if I was lucky.

    I'm not saying that things don't suck when you are a teenager, but between that and being a financially independent adult, I'd be a teenager again in a heartbeat. As an adult there is no one to really cover you when you mess up. That is terrifying.
     
  11. Andrae Smith

    Andrae Smith Bestselling Author|Editor|Writing Coach Contributor

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    In my experience, Stick and stones make a nice deterrent for verbal bullies if you know how to use them. ;)

    No but really, there are too many instances of teen suicide over what people said. I lost a couple of friends that way. It's sad. Words do hurt. They can be binding and distracting and dehumanizing and ultimately dangerous... I've never tolerated bullies and never will. Kids in school are utterly brutal these days. The things they say to each other are unnervingly cruel... I believe the point to that old adage is to teach kids not to be sensitive to the words of verbal bullies. My mom taught me this at a young age and It helped me not to care for a while, but caring was inevitable.

    Words are much more potent than punches. I found out soon enough, the best way to beat a verbal bully for some was to outsmart them and turn their insults in on themselves. That is, if you are skilled enough. I learned an intense vocabulary and excelled in general comprehensive thought, so those who were dumb enough to try to bully me learned the hard way. I took what they said, and let them talk, then I used their stupidity against them and made them look and feel bad. They never saw it coming because I was a nice, quiet guy.

    These days, the best defense against verbal bullies is the awareness that they are the ones with the deficiencies. They are the incomplete people. It's hard to teach an insecure teenager, that bullies have no hold because they are at a stage where their entire livelihood and identity are determined by the social sphere. But if one can instill confidence and foster it over the years, bullies will be ineffective. The real challenge is curing bullies of their illness.
     
  12. DPVP

    DPVP Active Member

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    I'm saying i prefer to go down swinging. maybe some day i will die from a violent act, but i shore plan to give them a show to remember, and bring some to hell with me. i place no value on the life of someone trying to kill me, or a member of my family. when its gone beyond your simple school yard brawl over pride, (like the bullying fights i was talking about) i a m not interested in a fair fight, i want it to be like clubbing a baby seal.
     
    Last edited: Oct 23, 2013
  13. T.Trian

    T.Trian Overly Pompous Bastard Supporter Contributor

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    @DPVP , we agree then.

    "I thoroughly disapprove of duels. If a man should challenge me, I would take him kindly and forgivingly by the hand and lead him to a quiet place and kill him."
    -Mark Twain
     
  14. Cave Troll

    Cave Troll It's Coffee O'clock everywhere. Contributor

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    While children can be cruel, nothing is worse than parents who are verbally abusive. Now that is how to wound without raising a hand to strike. :(
    Some scars are deepest and hurt the most, those that which you cannot see.
     
  15. Lifeline

    Lifeline South. Supporter Contributor

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    @Cave Troll : Yep.
     
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