Novel What are the worse mistakes in novels to you?

Im seeing lots of things that I find interesting being bashed. Maybe it's me.

Starting with dialogue. I use this a lot. Not long dialogue but enough to give a sense of the coming plot (the hook) but leaving just enough to give an incentive to go one.

And what's wrong with deus ex machina? Then any android types would be excluded (unless its more of a anime thing, which yes, it can be overdone). My book has an element that some might consider DeM.

From left field the police novels are subjective. I worked for two different departments. One was FUN. If youve seen the movie Super Troopers that will give you an idea of what life there was life. Yes, late night care chases (where I may or may not have ruined 3 patrol cars, one burning to a crisp, and one sinking...yes sinking), the cat game (license and registration...hurry up meow) and the repeater--that makes everyone just comply with confusion lol...

Then there's the department where corruption reigns supreme and your chief is...you can fill it in. Life there was miserable. Hiding everything you do because its not "right" by the chief. It doesnt matter if its right by you or the law. You can't give ticketst to him, he's the nephew of the cousin of my golf buddy or one that drove me insane was We need to void out these arrests, even if they are illegal immigrants with criminal records and active warrants on them, but they're building a house for the seneator...

One day I may write about that, but it wont be PC...which means by the time I get around to it, I just might do jail time or be executed...of course in a non offensive way lol

AB

 

I don't think anyone here is saying you shouldn't be allowed to write whatever appeals to you. We're just saying what we wouldn't be writing ourselves.

 

Well bash was a harsh word. We all have different styles. Mine happens to be...well, I can't compare it. The closest (and this is a very loose comparison) is Heinlein--informal with deliberate syntax errors to create psychological traps that lead a reader to think one thing when something else is about to happen, while not causing contradictions. But it does make for interesting suspense when a reader expects something, and then...

Well, it's a theory lol.
AB

 

When I read first person I don't feel that at all. I feel as if I've been taken back into the past with the narrator if the prose is in past sense, or that I'm experiencing the events with the narrator if it's in present tense. In neither case do I feel that the story is replayed from the narrator's memory.

 

Even when a book begins by the narrator talking directly to the reader, or if we're told that it's being narrated (like Memoirs of a Geisha) I soon forget. I never imagine it's being told to me in that kind of setting.

 

I'm not sure I really notice whether the novel is in present or past tense when I'm in full reading mode. I only take in the story.

 

Those seem more like a log book. "Captain's log, stardate..." same thing though. Im sure everyone can recall daily events in great detail if they sit down and fit it in each day before turning in.

 

I can agree that a novel has to grab the reader's attention but many times within the first few pages a reader knows if they will continue. I mostly take issue with the following:
1. Unanswered questions at the end of the book or series
2. Weird names that are difficult to pronounce
3. Love stories with characters so sappy that real life lovers think "Really"

 

I have to laugh. I've had somebody ask me about a dialogue between two characters that get intimate (as in one night stand. hey, people still have needs in space too!)

Anyway the questions were something like "Really, nobody uses lines like that" and I had to disagree because I was basing that particular interaction on my own. So perspective and experience is important. I can name a few novels by famous people that I can't stand, so its all ok.

By the way, I hope that my comments aren't seen as countering other people's posts. Its just a way to learn and see just how strongly some feel about things. That way I can debate on changing things, toning other things down while ramping up others.

Thanks,
AB

 

Another one that's occurred to me - crap endings. I feel so angry and cheated when I've invested hours in a book and the ending isn't satisfactory. I've had to invent my own endings for a few books so I can pretend they turned out the way I wanted.

Defining a crap ending is hard, though. In general I hate unanswered questions, but ambiguity can be brilliant when it's done right (rarely, IMO). Cliffhangers are a total pain in the butt, and one of the main reasons I only read standalone books. Also a non-happily-ever-after, unless it's foreshadowed or the tone of the book has prepared me for it. Even in horror, I hate how they always have to end with a hint that the antagonist hasn't REALLY been defeated.

 

So from reading this thread, I'm getting the feeling that people prefer to read a book in the third person rather than first? I'm pleased to admit that so far, my book hasn't fallen into a single one of the categories that people have been discussing on here, EXCEPT that it is mostly written in the first person present-day. Should I change this?

 

I think in general, if people are asked to state a preference they would say third, but very few people will avoid a book just because it's in first. Present tense is a little more controversial, and some people will actively avoid it. But it's not a deal breaker for most readers.

If it works for you and the book, don't change it!

 

The prologue thread reminded me of another thing I hate: opening lines, scenes or chapters that seem contrived in order to create a hook, especially if the author starts at a dramatic point and then immediate goes back in time to show how the characters got there. I always feel cheated.

Another reason I'm starting to really hate all the advice articles that tell you the opening paragraph must go BAM.

 

I know what you mean. I find present tense distracting. I made it through The Hunger Games, but it took a fair amount of effort to going on it.

Recently, I looked at a book on Amazon and was about to buy it. I did the "Look Inside" thing, found it was present tense, and passed on it.

 

Can you give us an example of a book that really does start BAM? Or an accessible short story?

 

A common occurrence on writing forums everywhere.

 

Great...now I feel I have to rewrite the end because I have a TON of unanswered questions...but for a reason. Poeple that are left in limbo (did they die, are they ok) just because one of the MCs has a subquest let's call it and timelines may change as a result. I do get back to those questions but it's book three.

I personally dont like trilogies or any number-l0gy (he) but I'd end up with Dune if I dont split it up. It seems more a marketing issue today than otherwise but again, this falls in the personal pet peeve not mistake

 

Reading a fair part of this thread, I tend to agree with those who dislike clichés or clichéd scenes - like the desk sergeant demanding the badge and gun from the unruly cop.

I'm not sure if the things I mention are correctly described as mistakes, or just things that annoy me because they could be described as matters of form or technique. Certainly, writing in first, second, or third person are not errors or mistakes, but just matters of the writer's preference. So too, writing in present tense as opposed to past.

When studying, I was warned against overusing some words. I started reading a novel once, where the author used the phrase "reverberated inside his skull" in several variations in the first few pages. I put it down on page four and never picked it up again. In another novel about Noah's Ark being a cave and not a ship, the main character had a "bag of tricks" which the author made constant reference to and I got the feeling it was something of a Santa's sack - able to hold all the toys of all the children in the world magically and still be carried by a single person.

I dislike the word "almost", because when used in its regular context of "I/he/she/it almost fell/grabbed/etc..." it means "didn't". In a Harlan Coben novel - and I think of him as one of the laziest writers I've encountered - he described in one paragraph how the main character almost tripped, almost fell, almost gagged, almost... And on the subject of Coben's laziness, he repeatedly described in that novel how golfers dressed "outrageously" - it told me nothing about their clothing.

It is also a matter of laziness to overuse adverbs, he said condemningly. <smile> And on that issue, prose that makes the reader stagger through the reading are not good.

Reading the beautiful Snow Falling On Cedars, Gutterson included at times, exhaustive detail of the vegetation in his settings. After a while, and because I'm in Australia and unfamiliar with the fauna around the book's location, this all became a haze of generic shrubs in my imagination. Whether this is an error or not is I guess up, for discussion, but I enjoyed the book a great deal, not the least of which was due to the seeming authenticity of the courtroom scenes.

Plagiarism at all levels is a huge error of judgment particularly nowadays: a few years back in Australia, a young writer plagiarised another Australian author's work, winning an award. When she was found out, she lost her award and I don't think I've heard of her since; while studying, we covered a short story that has an unattributed line from Gordon Lightfoot's Wreck of the Edmund Fitzgerald. Again, something of a no-no.

I think it's an error in science-fiction settings to try to make some gadgets and apparatus "real" - that is provide a basis for their workings in today's technology. I read Asimov's answer once to the question, "How do positronic brains work?" He simply said, "I don't know." Further back in time (ahem!) Well's time machine did the job it was supposed to and all it seemed to need was a jewelled knob; and of course, the scanners, phasers, transporter, and medical equipment of Star Trek all operate well enough for the story to proceed.

Finally, being factually wrong is an error: another short story made reference of some sea creature's shell being made of chitin, as I recall, and when I mentioned this was wrong and that the shell would be made of a different substance, the lecturer was outraged and didn't believe such a famous and highly-regarded author would make such a mistake, but I was right and she dropped the story and the author from her lecture material, as far as I know.

 

Turning to one issue, specifically, out of the many raised above, I don't think it is necessary to attribute every line from other works if they're incorporated into the body of the story. Reading Umberto Eco's The Mysterious Flame of Queen Loana, for example, the main character has amnesia, but can remember lines and passages from works he has studied. The character liberally recites such passages, either through dialogue or internal monologue. Sometimes they're attributed, sometimes not. Sometimes the character doesn't remember where they come from. Characters reciting lines from songs, poems, or other works, or from pop culture, is common in fiction.

 

In what genre are you writing? If YA/NA, first person present tense is VERY common, and I assume quite popular.

If literary, use whatever works best for you.

If something else? Maybe less likely to be popular, but still not something you should change just because of a few people on an internet board.

 

I say leave it first person, present tense if you like it. It's not the sort of thing you ought to change based on a few comments from people who haven't read your work.

 

My error for misstating: the words I referred to were incorporated wholesale into the body of the story, and not as dialogue.

 

You seem to be missing the 'for you' part.