Mammamaia used to claim that we shouldn't use semicolons in fiction because editors (at least in America) wouldn't buy stories that had semicolons. Now you're saying you see overuse of them. This is a little confusing. For what it's worth, I don't see overuse of semicolons in fiction. Rather, I see a lot of passages of short, choppy sentences that would read better, in my opinion, if they were rephrased to use semicolons. I certainly don't see semicolons as a crutch. They are not wishy-washy; they allow for greater precision. I encourage their use in both fiction and nonfiction because I like precise language and I like the tools that allow for it.
I should clarify. I see overuse of semicolons in novice writing. And I think you have misrepresented Maia. I believe her point was that editors tend to shy away from manuscripts laden with semicolons. I tend to agree. I know you disagree with me about the value of semicolons. I respect your position even though I disagree with it. I also don't think writing that avoids semicolons is necessarily built of short, choppy sentences. Neither are semicolon-sparse works necessarily woven of rambling, meandering sentences with no focus. Both of these are independent flaws.
Mamma might say that, but I did a check of books in the New York Times best-seller list and every single one used semicolons in the short extracts available on amazon.com. That was a few months ago: you might like to check the current list for yourself -- don't take my word for it. Clearly, publishers buy work that uses semicolons, and readers buy the books. Obviously, there's an issue if authors overuse them; the challenge is to get a feeling for what is overuse. In Mamma's defence, I'll acknowledge that there might be a genre issue here. I don't know what genre she generally deals in, and it might well be that in her genre semicolons just aren't acceptable. That doesn't necessarily extend to all genres.
I agree. I've had my disputes with her several times over this issue. I subscribe to the New Yorker, Harper's, and the Atlantic - they are probably the most respected and best-paying magazines that publish short fiction in the United States - and I always see semicolons and colons in the stories they publish. The assertion that American editors don't buy stories with semicolons never seemed true to me.
i don't recall ever saying/asserting that 'american editors don't buy stories with semicolons'... what i have asserted is that the majority of american novelists and short fiction writers do not use semicolons and that american readers are not as 'comfortable' with or as knowledgeable about the meaning of their use as their british counterparts, so it's best to avoid their use in writing fiction, to maximize one's chances of getting work published for paid credits...
And there I was thinking that the NYT best seller lists were a good indication of what the American public would accept in fiction. Mind you, I've re-done my earlier experiment, and the number of best-selling authors using semicolons does seem to be falling. Last time I looked, practically all of them did, even in the short extracts available for free on Amazon.com. Now only one of the top five hardback bestsellers does, although Donna Tartt uses more than enough to make up for all the others.
i rest my case! ;-) btw, the reply box is messed up again now... it's yellowish and there's no text options bar... was ok just minutes ago, when i replied to another post... is it that way for anyone else now?
When people misspell words they think will make them sound smart or well-read. E.g., when I heard about that social click, it peaked my interest.
I can't find the Alt code for it, but I wonder: if it were more popular, would we use it when appending tags to dialogue?
That's a good question. I have no idea. Hopefully more people start using the exclamation comma so that we can get an alt code for it. I'd start using them all the time.
The only use I can think of for it would be in ascii-art. Or perhaps that should be "unicode-art". It used to be perfectly acceptable to put ordinary exclamation marks in the middle of a sentence. I'd rather see a return to that than see the introduction of the exclamation comma. Ecclamation marks are (or should be) rare enough anyway without the need for a new sort which would only show that the writer was unable to use words well enough to achieve something that writers have done with little difficulty for centuries.
Does your average reader even notice a semi-colon? Do they pay that much attention if there's an exclamation mark or an ellipses? Editors notice them, writers notice them, and we want to avoid them because too much is too much, but your average reader who just wants to read a good story might not think about semi-colons that much... But what do I know...
I've noticed that Charlotte Macleod's books contain a lot of sentences that should have semicolons, but instead have commas. I've often imagined a duel between author and publisher, with Ms. Macleod refusing to remove the semicolons and the publisher removing them with a search-and-replace hatchet and failing to clean up the result. I have an overactive imagination.
I've noticed that Charlotte Macleod's books contain a lot of sentences that should have semicolons, but instead have commas. Which is also known as a run-on sentence, the surest sign of an incompetent writer.
I think there is some disagreement as to whether a comma splice makes for a run-on sentence. Whether it does or not, it seems evident to me that it can be used acceptably in fiction for stylistic reasons.
Most of the style guides I have say that a comma splice / run-on sentence is fine provided the sentences are short and very closely related. Most of them cite the same example: "I came, I saw, I conquered." Sure, you could use full stops or semicolons in place of the commas, or put in an "and" that wasn't in the original Latin, but the authors of the style guides seem to feel that commas give just the right sense of flow (and, for what it's worth, I agree).
stevesh... as one of the most nit-pickiest of editors [just ask my mentees, clients and fellow wf members!], i have to say there was nothing at all wrong with that sentence and it's certainly not a 'run-on' one... [fyi, 'most nit-pickiest' was on purpose, for effect]
I thought he was talking about the sentences in Charlotte Macleod's books - the ones that have commas instead of semicolons.
Yep. I find her to be an excellent writer otherwise--not merely competent, but clever and witty--so I just can't accept that she's to blame for that issue.
Semi-colons reminded me: I've been re-reading The Night Angel by Brent Weeks and, while I didn't notice it when I read it for the first time, now I'm extremely bugged by his abuse of em-dashes. They are everywhere! On every page, pretty much, interrupting the flow with some piece of information that previously would've been stuffed into brackets when brackets were still acceptable until someone realized that if you have to put it in brackets, it's probably redundant anyway. He also uses semi-colons quite extensively. Anyway, I think he's an English professor or teacher or something and a celebrated story-teller whose prose has been praised a lot. I do enjoy his novels, though, and I'm not after the scalp of his editor, but damn those dashes...
'She was reticent to talk about her tutorial.' 'Probably because she's disinterested in the subject.' 'Aye.' I know I'm not the breezy descriptivist I claim to be when I hear such stuff.
The misuse of the word 'epicenter' as a more learned-sounding synonym for 'center'. In truth, it makes the person who misuses it appear ignorant. The epicenter is the surface point above a submerged or buried center of a three-dimensional phenomenon. Its use in connection with earthquakes is accurate. Nearly every other use of the word you hear these days is incorrect. This is the usual outcome when one becomes enamored of a word without bothering to understand its full meaning and connotations.
