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  1. nibris
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    nibris Member

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    What defines discrimination?

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by nibris, Aug 22, 2011.

    I've noticed that it's become increasingly popular lately to not only criticize, but to ridicule, mock and even antagonize religion and religious people. I started wondering a few weeks ago, why, in our hyper-sensitive, politically correct society, are things considered intolerant or discriminatory, except when done or said to a religious person?

    There's an episode of South Park for example, where one of the characters says, "Christians are retarded!" and I just thought to myself, 'if you changed the word Christian to African-American, suddenly that episode would be banned and the entire production company behind the TV show would be sued until bankruptcy.'

    Why is it that the only two groups that seem to be exempt from the political-correctness mandated show of respect are Mexicans and religious people? It seems really hypocritical that society will go out of its way to find something to claim is racist or intolerant towards some groups of people, but at the same time allow anything, no matter how offensive, to be said about others.

    This thread will probably be closed down for being too controversial. I feel that if that happens, it would just further my point: the thread is offensive to some, so it gets shut down, whereas multiple pointedly anti-secular threads still float around freely on this site.

    I apologize if this post seems to be impatient or otherwise unpleasant in nature; hypocrisy is just one of the things that sets me on edge.
     
  2. arron89
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    arron89 Banned

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    I don't think you're making the point you think you're making by referencing South Park, a show that routinely and repeatedly offends everyone it possibly can (albeit in an ultimately egalitarian and innocuous way). Sure, it makes fun of religion, but it also makes fun of different racial tropes, different sexualities, class, gender, etc, etc.

    There's a difference between something like what South Park does, though, and what groups like Westboro Baptist Church do; I guess more generally, the difference between comedy/satire and genuine hatred and discrimination. An episode of South Park that makes fun of the use/misuse of the word 'fag' is completely different to a sign from Westboro Baptist saying 'God hates fags'. Some people will probably find both offensive, but the difference is in the intention.
     
  3. Lightman
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    Lightman Active Member

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    Yes, like arron said, South Park has gone pretty far in the offensive category (see the "nagger" episode) for pretty much everyone. (Also, I don't watch South Park).

    Let's bear in mind that Christianity is a chosen affiliation whereas being black is not.

    I'm opposed to impediments to talking, and I'm opposed to the doctrine that all ideas are equally worthy of respect and that questioning someone's belief is somehow wrong. Also the phrase "I have the right to my opinion" makes me want to go on a rampage.
     
  4. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    If the thread is closed down, it will be due to the behavior of the participant.

    FAIR WARNING: Whoever starts the argument that closes down this thread may be subject to an infraction or a ban.

    So behave as if your account standing depends on it.
     
  5. Peerie Pict
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    Peerie Pict Contributing Member Contributor

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    ^ What Lightman and Arron89 so eloquently said. No need for a loooong post. My work is done.
     
  6. StrangerWithNoName
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    StrangerWithNoName Longobard duke

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    South Park is not politically correct, quite the opposite, and I think the religious people should have a thicker skin on the issue.
     
  7. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    It is true that it is OK to criticize Christians in our politically-correct society. I'm not Christian, but I think it is hard to deny that they are one of the few groups where criticism in the mainstream (and even by it) is brushed aside, and the same sort of behavior targeting other groups would bring an outcry.

    The South Park example is bad, however. They offend everyone, left, right, race, religion, etc. In addition to the 'nagger's episode, remember the movie which had "Operation Human Shield," which consisted of all the blacks in the military forming the front line, while the white members of the military formed behind them in the aptly-named "Operation Get Behind the Darkies."

    They've reamed environmentalists, muslims, scientologists, conservatives, liberals (quite often), the disabled, and just about any other group you can think of.
     
  8. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    South Park indulges in disrespect and ridicule as entertainment.

    I can understand a backlash against political correctness, which is a reflexive response to any kind of difference without the intrusion of thought.

    However, what should prevail is a respect for, and acknowledgement of, differences. The true value of diversity is viewing any problem from different directions, and combining the insights from those perspectives to arrive at solutions.
     
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  9. BFGuru
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    BFGuru Active Member

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    I see religious intolerance on all fronts. Christianity, however, may not get the legal discrimination other religious groups get. I could be wrong. And that is fine. However, I've yet to meet a christian fired or not hired simply for being a christian. I have seen it happen to Islams. I have seen it happen to atheists. There are laws set in place to prevent "gay bashing" as well, but that doesn't seem to deter some from being cruel. Political correctness is a farce we tried to hide behind as a nation. I don't think it ever really existed. Respect for others is something that is innate, and possibly only possible through respecting one's self first. I mean, if we valued ourselves as individuals we wouldn't see the need to discredit others would we? If we believed what we truly had was worthy and wonderful, would we feel the need to force others into accepting it? Or would we let nature ride its course and allow others to discover the joy for themselves?

    I guess, I'm trying to say...possibly...my understanding of discrimination stems from others' lack of self respect.
     
  10. J.P.Clyde
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    J.P.Clyde Prince of Melancholy Contributor

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    So, it's all right for them to do it to us? Bu wrong for us to do it to them?
     
  11. BFGuru
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    BFGuru Active Member

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    I don't believe it's right for anyone to do it to each other. However, we are all human and once attacked we tend to want to fight back. And so the cycle continues.
     
  12. mugen shiyo
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    mugen shiyo Contributing Member

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    Why is it offensive to joke about Mexicans and religious people? I feel this is a questions stated as opposed to why them when it is okay to joke about everyone else, like caucasian people.

    I think the answer is because these groups have a history of being offended by people on the basis of their culture, beliefs, and ethnicity. Certain words, statements, and images are linked to times of struggle for these people (past and present) and when they are used or displayed, it touches down to deep resentment. Since we- Caucasians- don't have that particular history of racial abuse and Catholicism/Christianity (seeing as though in the very least, they gave as much as they took) religious intolerance, we aren't affected by jokes like that. And it's not something ling ago either. Muslim fanatics still slander Muslims in America. Congressmen do it on national TV- a virtual slap in the face to anyone born hear or who came here expecting fair treatment and opportunity. These are people who are supposed to be giving them fair representation. Jews have been abused all over the world for millenia. African Americans...there's a load of sensitivity there. Those Bugs Bunny cartoons that are edited to remove the racial things in them. That stuff tends to stick down deep in a people.
     
  13. Radrook
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    Radrook Contributing Member

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    That's to be expected if an enemy of God were in charge of the nations wouldn't it? Jesus called him the ruler of this world.



    The area that he rules or the world, the earth, is called the dominion of darkness.



    It is described as having both spirit and human rulers under those spirits



    As for speaking out for justice now and then. Sure. That's to be expected as well.


    Why? To gain enough trust in order to remain undetected as an enemy of mankind. So to those who accept the Bible's explanation of whose temporarily in charge the anti religion mockery comes as no great puzzle.


    That this ruler's primary goal is to mislead and that he has successfully done so is described Revelation



    That's why Jesus made sure that we understood that his kingdom had nothing to do with earthly governments


    That's why earthly governments are described as rampaging beasts in Daniel and as being attacked by Jesus at Armageddon in order to make room for his kingdom to take full control of earth's affairs.



    So as previously mentioned, pro atheistic propaganda and constant almost fanatical and obsessive anti-religious mockery comes as no great puzzle to the person who accepts the biblical message that describes who really has been and still is temporarily in charge of earth's affairs via its governments.
     
  14. shadowwalker
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    shadowwalker Contributing Member Contributor

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    I think there are two different subjects here - one, discrimination, and two, intolerance or PC (depending on your view). Discrimination, at least in my view, is using some 'group distinction' to prevent someone from enjoying their full rights as citizens. Intolerance/PC is making fun of or denigrating particular groups because they don't fit one's view of what's 'right'.

    I'm not sure why you think Mexicans in particular are 'okay' to make fun of. I haven't noticed that personally. But religions and religious people, yes, I've seen that frequently. And the mentally ill - that's a personal aggravation of mine. But, as I say, it seems like any group that doesn't 'fit' is open for ridicule/criticism. Liberals/conservatives, PC/'non-PC', religious/non-religious, one race versus another, etc. If one doesn't agree with what they say, do, represent - let's bash them!

    Personally, I think the world would be a much better place if, instead of bashing the people, we could go after any words or actions which actually cause discrimination, and otherwise recognize that individuals have a right to their own beliefs, regardless of how reprehensible they may seem to us. Otherwise, we put ourselves on the same level.
     
  15. Jessica_312
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    Jessica_312 Contributing Member

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    I like South Park. Just throwing that out there. They've poked fun at just about EVERY group there is, not only Christianity (shows like Family Guy tend to be much more one-sided with their jabs, whereas South Park are equal-opportunity offenders... and they make me laugh :p )

    Political correctness is necessary, to an extent, but it gets taken too far and in some cases, people simply need to form a thicker skin (note I said in SOME cases). Obviously, outright hate against any group (religious, ethnic, or otherwise), is wrong. Though I'm not a practicing Christian anymore, I was for the first 18 years of my life, and I can't even begin to tell you how many anti-Christian tirades I've heard over the years. I do agree that Christianity does seem to get singled out quite a bit for ridicule - I understand the hatred for groups like the Westboro Baptist Church, but they're a group of extremists, not true Christians. There's a difference. On the other hand, being Irish, I can't tell you how many "drunken Irish" jokes I've also heard. It runs the gamut. (The jokes don't bother me, though).

    This.
     
  16. Radrook
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    Radrook Contributing Member

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    Of course not being mutually exclusive they can exist in the same mind and reinforce each other. Intolerance, in fact, might be the motivation for a discriminatory policy. .
     
  17. shadowwalker
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    shadowwalker Contributing Member Contributor

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    Most definitely. But when that occurs, it's the discriminatory policy that has to be attacked. It is still the right of that individual to have those beliefs. It's just not their right to act on them.
     
  18. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    @Radrook. Why are pretty much all your quotes from different books?

    And what defines discrimination? Bill O'reilly.
    (Zing! Political satire.)
     
  19. arron89
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    arron89 Banned

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    People are discriminated against because Obama is the biblical antichrist. Makes total sense.
     
  20. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    Where is he mentioning Obama? Seems like you have to make the inference to get there...
     
  21. StrangerWithNoName
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    StrangerWithNoName Longobard duke

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    Better to come back to watch Conan the Destroyer than reading this thread.
     
  22. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    What threat?
     
  23. Gallowglass
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    Gallowglass Contributing Member Contributor

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    Oh, South Park criticised black people, too. That makes it alright then.

    No it doesn't. I don't like quoting from 1984 in regards to political correctness, but the old line 'all are equal, some are more equal than others' has never been truer.
     
  24. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    That wasn't Nineteen-eighty Four. That was Animal Farm.
    'All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others'.
     
  25. Gallowglass
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    Gallowglass Contributing Member Contributor

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    Ah, whoops. Thanks for correcting me.
     
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