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  1. Lea`Brooks
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    Lea`Brooks Contributing Member Contributor

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    What do other countries think of Obama?

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Lea`Brooks, Jul 30, 2014.

    I read a news article today stating that many republicans believe America should impeach President Obama. Being a firm Obama supporter, I was confused, because I felt like he'd been doing great things for our country. So I started doing more research.

    According to a recent poll, many Americans believe Obama is the worst president since WWII.

    See: http://www.nationalmemo.com/poll-white-southerners-think-obama-worst-president-ever/

    But upon reviewing the comments (and other websites), it seems to me that he has done a lot of good for our country...

    So I'm curious. What do other countries think of him? Or more specifically, what do the other members of this forum that are not from America think of him? This is pure curiosity. Do you love him? Hate him? Think he's a moron? What do you think? :)

    Edit: Another article I found arguing both sides: http://www.npr.org/2012/04/06/149975915/obama-is-the-best-and-the-worst-president-discuss
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2014
  2. jazzabel
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    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

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    Obama, and any other contemporary US President is a face of a much more complex machine, a military-industrial complex that is the US Government and Administration. I say this simply because vast majority of US economy is related to war, weapons and military, in one way or another. There's no fundamental difference between the two parties in any two party system (UK is similar), especially in a two party system where if you want to even run for a President, you have to have access to extreme amounts of money (campaign donations reaching tens of millions are spend each election, a money only certain people can attract, and only certain people can supply).

    Whoever wins is inevitably indebted to the richest businesses, corporations, individuals, and they all tend to have quite similar objectives. Did Obama withdraw troupes from the Middle East and Balkans? Close Guantanamo? Actually significantly improve the socioeconomic situation for the average American? No. So in fact, his Presidency results are different from Bush in spin only. (Naturally, there's a little bit of leeway to the left or to the right, in order to give illusion of choice, but nothing that would compromise the overall agenda, or allow for a paradigm shift).

    As far as Obama personally, I see his election as beginning of an end of the Nobel Committee. To give Nobel Peace Prize to someone who hasn't done anything to actually deserve it, but in fact turned out to be complicit in widespread war crimes since receiving the award, is almost as ironic as EU awarding themselves the same prize after actively participating and prolonging the war in Yugoslavia, and then illegally attacking Serbia against UN Security Council Resolution. Who's next then? Posthumous Nobel for Hitler, Stalin, Gingis Khan, Kim Jong Un's granddad? And it all started with Obama, so he's became a joke on international stage.

    I was as touched as every other empathic person in the world when Obama was elected. We all know the plight of black people in America, it is truly incomprehensible how they were, and still are treated, and it was a glorious, joyful moment that we all hoped will truly start a social change. Sadly that did not happen, in fact, the positive emotion about the first black US president was abused by the US Government to carry out some truly antisocial actions. I feel duped. I know a lot of Americans are feeling betrayed. Obama is just a politician, I feel nothing but contempt towards him. Obviously, this is just my opinion, which is what you asked :)
     
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2014
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  3. Charisma
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    Charisma Transposon Contributor

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    I think nothing of him. Like @jazzabel said, Obama represents the bigger face of the American industry, and he himself is simply a puppet whose strings are pulled by corporations and institutions that are truly in control. Hating on him or on any predecessor is kind of naive, at least in my opinion.

    As for the first Black president, I was actually happy. I've never been intimately affected by the Black struggle, but hey, all the power to all ethnicities. But if he is turning out to be a poor president, I guess it's bad for the African American community in America.

    BTW, there were some people who made a big deal out of the fact that his grandparent (idk which one) was Muslim and his middle name was Hussein--again, couldn't care less. He's obviously not a professed Muslim so who gives a flying wallaby?
     
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  4. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    A stronger majority believes Bush was worse.
     
  5. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I didn't mind Obama, for me he gave the slight hope he was going to be a real force for good, and that he would cut America's ghastly military expenditure (I'll not say it's 'defence' I've read enough Orwell to not make that mistake) and instead focus on education and infrastructure, and other things like that.

    Instead I've not really heard this has happened, and while I applaud him for the way he has conducted himself during some recent crisis (and not in others, I have to be fair) ... drone strikes, Guantanamo, NSA spying. I don't feel I need to say any more than that.
     
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  6. thirdwind
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    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    Obama is actually Bush 2.0, so this is actually Bush's fourth term in office.
     
  7. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    If the national opinion of Obama is as bad as those polls suggest, people are more ignorantly misled by the media than even I thought.

    If you ask people if they like "Obamacare" they say no. If you ask them if they like the "Affordable Care Act" (the same thing), they say yes.

    It's frustrating that the GOP spin machine is so effective.
     
  8. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    I could accept Obama being Bush 1.1, but considering he diametrically opposed on every front other then national security, you're going to have to fight hard for your definition.
     
  9. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    No, just no. If this was Bush 2.0, we'd have been bombing a lot more than individual drone targets.

    That doesn't mean Obama hasn't continued more Bush policies than I think are healthy for the country, he has. But at least we aren't sending forces and munitions into every area of conflict in the world.
     
  10. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    And there's that too. But Obama's continuing the extensive NSA spying, oppression of news reporting on the government, and failure to prosecute some of the worst offenders in the banking industry have been a disappointment as well.
     
  11. Lea`Brooks
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    Lea`Brooks Contributing Member Contributor

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    I respect everyone's opinions, and I'm glad I started this thread. :)

    To be quite honest, I don't follow politics. I worked at a newspaper a few years back, and all of my employees followed it very closely. So I kind of learned simply by association. I did support Obama in both elections (even went to a rally before his first term, which was quite enjoyable). But I can't really say what he has and has not done since his election. (It's is just too depressing to me sometimes. It's like the South Park episode. Electing a president is like choosing between a turd and a shit sandwich [or whatever the candidates were].)

    But after seeing the poll that showed 33% of people thought he was the worst president since WWII (with Bush at 28%), it prompted me to do a lot of research regarding what Obama has actually done. According to my research, and please correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems he's done a lot of good for America too.

    He fixed a broken economy, he created millions of jobs, the stock market reached record highs. He rescued the car industry, shaved a trillion dollars off the budget deficit, took banks out of the student loan process, started the ACA. Not to mention all the good he's done for the LGTB community.

    I suppose now my question is, why do people overlook all the good he's done because of the few things he HASNT done? I guess I'm just confused as to why people think he's so horrible..

    Edit: I guess my ignorance is where he's going wrong. I tried to look it up, but I haven't found much on exactly what he's done, or hasn't done, to make people hate him. Care to enlighten me on the facts? :)
     
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  12. thirdwind
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    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    Yes, just yes. There are more drone strikes under Obama, the defense budget has gone up, he supported funding the war in Iraq even before he became President, he signed an extension to Bush's Patriot Act, the administration continued to block prisoner abuse photos, he's more aggressive when it comes to going after whistleblowers, lack of transparency, and that's just the tip of the iceberg. He's pretty much continuing all of Bush's policies.
     
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  13. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    To be honest, the thing that strikes me as most odd about Obama than anything else is the reaction to him. As an outsider, here's a serious question: Why do certain Americans insist on flat out not understanding about the word 'Socialism'. I know Socialism might still be a dirty word because of the Soviet Union thing, but seriously, that fell apart 20 bloody years ago! Pick up a dictionary of political theory!

    Also, what is with movements like these idiots whose two heroes are Jesus and (Bahaha!) Ayn Rand, who rant on and on about Obama being the Antichrist?
     
  14. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    As previously stated that is one part of the policy that has continued. Every other domestic policy is different.

    I'm not sure what your point about Iraq up there is either. Obama ran on pulling us out of Iraq, then pulled us out of Iraq, and has now refused to go back into Iraq.
     
  15. Lea`Brooks
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    Lea`Brooks Contributing Member Contributor

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    Call me an idiot, but I honestly have never understood socialism... It's quite embarrassing really.

    And people mostly call him the anti Christ because they believe he's Muslim and is trying to separate Christianity from America, which is what should happen, in my honest opinion..

    Freedom of religion (but only for Christians)! -_-
     
  16. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Essentially it's the equal sharing of produce, wealth, property, and responsibility.

    If you have 100 people working in a factory making shoes, those 100 people own 1/100th of that factory, and each person has a say in the running of the factory. Then everything is sent to a sort of central planner to get produce to where it is needed. In theory this would mean everyone has equal access to whatever they need to live a comfortable happy life, with everyone owning at least some part of the community or societies means of production and produce produced by that community or society.

    It involves national organization and allocation of resources, or state planning for short, and many smaller democratic bubbles ensuring workers control the means of production.
     
  17. thirdwind
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    thirdwind Contributing Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    Can you give a few examples? Some examples of commonalities includes No Child Left Behind (which Obama did modify a few years ago, but it was unchanged his first four years), bank bailouts, rescuing the auto industry, and the fact that Obamacare is very similar to one of Bush's Medicare acts. So there are several policies where they share similar views.

    If I remember correctly, in 2008, Bush was the one who signed off on pulling the troops out by 2011.
     
  18. Jack Asher
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    Jack Asher Wildly experimental Contributor

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    Recommendations from the Fed aren't fair. Both Obama and Bush were operating under the same advisement.

    But lets start with pro gay policies, like abolishing Don't Ask Don't Tell, refusing to defend DOMA, and Immediately enacting the new rules when DOMA was struck down.

    We'll move on to immigration where Obama has completely reversed Bushes policies and allowed non-violent immigrants to move to the bottom of the pile from deportation proceedings, the founding of the DREAM act and extensions of citizenship to aliens who join the military.

    There's the new Common Core policy that is replacing No Child which focuses on entirely different rubrics.

    I feel at this point it's important to point out that Obama has been trying to close Guantanamo, and couldn't get congress to support the decision. He can't close the prison because the Republican House won't allow him to house enemy combatants on domestic soil.

    There's the attempts to expand minimum wage (blocked), the attempt to extend unemployment benitfits (blocked) the attempt to provide for American infrastructure (Dick Cheyne came out against that one. Also blocked)

    Aslo all of the attempts to raise taxes on the rich and allow the Bush tax cuts to expire (something I feel Bush would probably be against).

    There's a bunch of foreign policy changes too, especially with the governments of Pakistan and Afghanistan, that are more a change of tone then anything else. But I said we would only talk about domestic policy.

    Hmmmmm, if feels like something is missing. Maybe something that was a gigantic legislative achievement. Maybe a bill that has been intelligently welded to his name.

    I'm sure I'll think of it in a bit.
     
  19. A.M.P.
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    A.M.P. People Buy My Books for the Bio Photo Supporter Contributor

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    For the Ayn Rand part, Ayndroids have been panicking over Atlas Shrugged for about a dozen years now as modern demoncracy is now a name we give to corporate socialism. It's not something I agree as an Ayndroid but something that lines up with own beliefs a bit.

    Democracy is a fantastic idea where power is allocated where the public wants it rather than power being a right to a select few. However, the greatest examples of a working Democracy have been on short scale people where population was small, compared to todays, and the geography didn't vary as much per locale and each citizen was generally the same culturally. Nowadays, democracy is so widespread across one country of very different typography, people, immigrants, and more. How can all people vote with the country in mind if there homes are so different from their neighbors?

    The idea multiple parties that have no won an election still causing noise and having a voice in long hearings is ridiculous in of itself. They lost, their wants and policies shouldn't be considered much less cause a slow down in parlement because they're all busy thanking each other before proceeding to endless arguments on non-governmental things like abortion or marriage.

    I believe in a more minimalist government who only deals with matters of state rather than things that more concern the individual's own wants and needs.

    So, returning to thr Ayndroid part, they are worried because Ayn Rand had a very healthy fear of socialism, well... a little extreme, and now that democracy is run by politicians backed by corporations and philanthrophists, it's becoming less about the individuals involved and more about power houses, or groups/corporation, that influence the lives of others because they influence all politics with their own agenda, effectively stepping on everyone's rights to do as they see fit rather than how the people see fit.

    There's a lot more to it but I don't listen much to her heir, Piekoff, or any Objectivism organizations.
     
  20. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    'Corporate Socialism' is an oxymoron. I'm willing to say it doesn't exist.
     
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  21. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Yes there are drone strikes. I said that. I said there was a continuation of the NSA and lack of transparency positions. I said all that. Did you think I was dismissing those facts? :rolleyes:

    But we aren't wholesale bombing Northern Iraq again, we didn't send troops and cruise missiles into Syria, we didn't send massive amounts of munitions into the Ukraine. The AFA (health care act) was passed.

    And all that stuff @Jack Asher noted.
     
  22. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Love the new vocabulary words! :D
     
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  23. outsider
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    You're an idiot. ;)
    Sorry, couldn't resist.
    Start off by reading Das Kapital by Karl Marx or The Communist Manifesto by Marx and Engels accompanied by an academic commentary.
    Hours of fun.
     
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  24. A.M.P.
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    May not be the correct term for it but any person or group that influence the country's agenda for their own needs so long as they don't step on another powerhouse's toes is a corporate socialist to me :p It stops being about actual state affairs and more about keeping the money people happy enough so they do anything rash.

    Money and politics should never mix.
    Like love and office work.
    Or bacon and pickle slices.
     
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  25. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Das Kapital is the most boring book I never finished.
     
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