I think what you said is really great and it inspires me, to be quite honest. It's realistic. And I went to the publisher who's publishing your book and they have lots of titles they publish in e-formats and through Kindle. Maybe that's the answer. Maybe that's what we should do.
I'm curious here. Why don't you enlighten us? I know we all want to write a James Patterson novel. Who said anything about working my way to the top? Your claim is that there's no chance of a new writer ever getting published anymore. This claim is completely absurd, and we are challenging you on it. So far the only solution you've suggested is to stop writing because it's hopeless. You seem to be under the impression that everyone wants to be the next Stephen King or J.K. Rowling. While that's true for some, that's not true for everyone. Many are content with small presses. Many more are content with simply writing for the sheer pleasure of it. This is like all that nonsense when Napster first came out, with bands suing creators of file sharing programs left and right because the music industry thought they were done for. And what happened? The industry utilized Mp3s and iPods and now music sales are booming. Not only that, but indie artists are getting increasingly more recognition because it's so cheap and easy for them to upload their music for download. It's even better now for garage bands than it was before. I expect the same thing will happen with this dreaded "eBook scare."
Lock the thread? Why? Apparently, you still want to talk to me. You're continuing to post even after asking for the thread to be locked. And when did I ever suggest that we stop writing? Seriously, looking back in this string when did I ever suggest that? I write horror. I have a novel completely finished. Maybe I'll check out Fiona's publisher. It seems pretty good. I'll buy a couple of their books from Amazon to make sure they know how to format. I'll buy Fiona's book when it comes out in March, and maybe that's the direction I'll go. I wrote this string to present what I know about the publishing industry and to try to find a solution to the problem of being a new writer today. Maybe this post, therefore, has been successful; your mocking notwithstanding. So, now, I guess they can go ahead and lock the thread. Unless that is you're not done getting things off your chest in my general direction.
I'm not being rude. Your first response to me was condescending and mocking, so I'm just feeding off of your energy here. I think this is a good discussion to have in order to shirk off the mythology of eBooks ruining the industry. Anyway, this thread derailed. I think a better focus is on small presses and the opportunities they create. Thread, back on track.
You specifically stated that there is no market for new writers, that people will only buy the work of big named authors. I can't make this stuff up. It's written in clear English in your posts. Now you're showing the sort of optimism that should have been present from the beginning. I would not have responded to you so coarsely had you not made a statement about me trying to get to the other side of a rainbow. Honestly I resent that because Leprechauns terrify me. Now that we have this thread back on track to small publishers, we can continue from there, without all the naysay about new writers not having a shot, mmkay? I just hate that sort of unchecked pessimism. Sorry if I came out confrontational: I'm usually a pretty nice guy.
But they do have a pot of gold lol So is a small publisher a rainbow, leprechaun or a pot of gold. I agree with you if we look at the music industry - if I was to go with a large tradtional publishers my books will probably not be published - my second is YA, my first a much more grown up version using the same characters, then I have crude innuendo stuff, and some more gentle Agatha Christie style writing. I think the changes could be very positive allowing in writing we haven't seen before and more flexibility for writers. Not to mention getting rid of the huge number of these days faceless agents who work by email.
Personally, I've always been a fan of indie and smaller known works that have a cult following, be it movies, music, or books. So the idea of getting accepted by a major publisher doesn't really concern me. It may sound silly, but I would rather have a small cult following than a massive one. Massive audiences can turn on you in an instant. Cult fans are usually loyal for life, regardless of how crazy you get. But that's just me and why I suppose this all doesn't bother me too much.
Well... this is a depressing thread. I'd like to disagree with you. I don't think E-books will destroy the market, they will just change it. Personally, I never bought an E-book. I like reading a physical book with paper, instead of staring into a computer, but that's just me. I think there's a lot of readers still out there, looking for the creation of the next Harry Potter, or the next Frodo Baggins. I think it all depends on how well you can create a world, and enclose your reader in that world. If people like what you write, they will tell their peers, and soon enough, you'll be famous. If you're a good writer, that is.
I know what you mean - I write so my stories will get read, anything else is just gravy. Kind of lucky that I already have a small cult following - I have achieved my goal in writing stories that people like to read. Had about ten people actually read my book in a night (I know it is a short one at 50K) but that was my great compliment. Even on here seeing my characters referred to by other people by their nicknames etc. Having said that if I was to get offered a massive advance not about to turn it down either lol
Totally agree with this. I had a friend once who asked me why I write horror. They told me I'd have a much better chance at being famous or rich if I wrote a book like Harry Potter. As if it was a decision of the head, not the heart. I write what comes out of me, and that is generally horror. I would much rather have only a few hundred readers who love my dark work than to have to think about pleasing audiences and worrying about how many copies will fly off the shelves to keep my agent happy. That's always been my aim: to write and hopefully have people enjoy it. It doesn't have to be on a huge scale for me to consider it a success, either. I think e-books will change the world of publishing, but I don't see why that's a bad thing. Thanks to the new ways of reading, I can have someone order my paperback on Amazon, or order an e-copy on the Itunes store. That's a whole new way to reach an audience. That's at least one good thing to come out of it.
What do we do now? Quit whining and carry on writing. Aye. Others know better than me, but the phenomenon of the musician making his or her way on the back of a couple of thousand fans - who need only spend twenty quid a year each to sustain the artist - is now a commonplace.
E-books are not reinvigorating the market. The people who buy e-books are the dedicated readers that have and always will read fiction books. There are catagories of readers: 1. those who will seek out a book in their favorite genre, buy it, and read it. 2. those who will read a book if they see it lying around and they have nothing else to do. 3 Those who will only read a book if they have to for school. 4. Those who read only non-fiction books related to their interests 5. Those who do not read books at all. Most of the population does not read books at all. The first category, the ones who actively read, are the only ones publishers can rely on to buy books, and that category has been shrinking steadily since the middle of the last century, blame TV, video games, movies, etc. However, there will always be a percentage of the population that is in category 1 no matter what. But make no mistake we are shrinking down to that percentage; it is not growing. That is why e-publishing is the wave of the future, but it is not going to increase sales. Sales of e-books are steadily increasing now, that's for sure, but only because people are turning away from paperback and hardback books, so it's kind of a zero sum game as far as book sales go. What would increase category 1? Nothing. Well, if we could no long produce electricity and had to go back to candles and kerosine lamps, that would do it. What you can count on is that eventually given the rise of people wanting to write books and the decline of people buying books to read is that all readers will also be writers, and you will be able to advertise your e-book much more easily, for instance in groups like this. Fiona is doing it right. Read her post in here, her expectations are managed. See how she is marketing her book: I'm a category 1 reader, and I'm going to buy her book as soon as it is available. My doom and gloom about new authors and publishing is directed at the old-school paradigm. In other words, if you envision a time when you are signing hardback books at Barnes and Noble in New York, you're wasting your time. That's celebrity publishing today. One day we may make it to celebrity status. If The Banishing is one day picked up by a movie producer--bang--celebrity status, hardbacks, Barnes and Noble in New York. If it should win a major contest--bang--celebrity status. If it goes viral in the underground--bang. If a low budget production company makes the next Blair Witch Project out of it--bang. But celebrity status is not something you can work to acheive. It's a lottery you play. Oh, and agents like Rachelle Gardner or Janet Reid? Why bother? You don't need them until the Big Bang occurs, and when it does, you won't have to kiss their ass for representation. As for me, my expectations are managed. I'd like to know that a hundred people have read my novel. That would make writing novels worthwhile to me. That's what I'm aiming for. I make enough money in my day job, and I consider my day job very important. So, my expectations are managed.
Personally I come under three of those categories and can add one more - those who will read anything and everything they can get their hands on. We are one category where ebook readers will increase sales. Actually I can envisage why it may well invigorate sales - smaller houses, less bookcase space etc I don't have space in my house for 1000 books do you ? An ebook allows for many more books to be squeezed into a suitcase, much easier to carry about loads of books on an ebook readers, as a busy Mum it is easier to put up and pick down, I may actually get more read. Once they are devloped a braille ebook reader could account for many more sales simply due to practicality. Also they cost less to produce so either they will reduce the prices of books or increase the profit margins. Arthitis suffers will find it easier than holding and turning a page. Font size is increased easily so you don't need to buy more expensive larger print sizes. Also much easier to buy and download doesn't have to be waited for in post etc or go out to bookshop to by so that essential research book can be bought instantly. You can buy that one extra book on the long journey that you didn't think you would need. Or whilst on holiday if you have more time than expected.
I am not on your list, therefore it is iincomplete. I am not fanatic about a single author nor do I consider reading to be marginal to other forms of entertainment. I will buy an established author or a first timer based off recommendatioms. Next time, make sure your list is complete please.
I agree with a lot that you say. Bit depressing if you're waiting to make your fortune out of writing today, but true. At least if you want to conquer the world with a mind blowing novel just ripe for turning into a blockbusting film. Unless, that it, you happen to be a celebrity with a good ghost writer, an even better photographer and an army of fans just waiting for this year's offering. It's not just bios either. I've read novels (well one!) by 'well known personalities' that have turned out to be total rubbish. Some of the larger publishing houses, by their own admission, are eager to sign these celebs. at the cost of new writers. Why take a chance of a 'maybe' when you can have a dead cert? I think writers have to be realistic. Let's face it, most of us will never make the top grade. The best we can do, if we can't develop a 'catwalk persona' is to hope that our work will reach as many people as possible, by any method we can employ, and trust that that work will give pleasure to those who read it. If one person is affected by something you've written, if they laugh, or smile, or even cry, if someone feels better, if you make them think differently, or touch their lives in any way - your writing has been successful. Yes - the money would be good. Please, God, if you're listening, SOME money would be good!
I don't think anyone here is arguing that a fortune can be made from writing. But a writer is still going to make more money following the traditional publishing path, which is why I would recommend this path over self-publishing any day.
What? My list isn't complete because I didn't mention YOU. Talk about high maintenance! Besides, you fit into category one: you read books and you buy them to read them.
Very well said. I couldn't have said it better (which completely pisses me off as a writer!). That's very true. If a publisher will give you several thousand dollars advance, push your book, sign you for three more books, and sell the rights to Paramount Studios, there's a lot more money in that traditional route. Keep in mind there's two kinds of self-publishing. The first is where an author does everything themselves, the second is where the author creates a publishing company and contracts an editor, a cover artist, and perhaps an advertising firm. The first is probably what you're referring to, the second is distinguished from a small press only by who owns the majority of shares in the company.
of course if you self publish doing everything yourself and manage to shift large numbers then you get a greater cut. Taking on employees or contractors in any business eats into your profit margins.
No, you said (emphasis mine) You have sought to force an overlooked category of readers into one of your arbitrary categories. That is not an accurate description of what I, or many readers do. We read, not because we love the Twilight Series, Patterson's books, etc., but rather because the act of reading anything is one of many forms of entertainment. Your ad hominem attack does not counter my valid point. You are seeking to categorize people in such a method as to serve your argument. I am arguing that your categories are incomplete and exclude the groups for which your argument is incorrect. This is a variant on the Texas Sharpshooter Fallacy. If you are going to try to pidgeonhole people, you need more holes. Gödel's Incompleteness Theorems will forever plague you. Consider please that the publishing market is being democratized by the mere fact that we do not need a brick and mortar publisher any longer to get our books out there. There is a sea of terrible, but we have different means of sorting through that dross. Technology is advancing and the publishers are only now starting to adapt to the changes. I only hope they do not make the same mistakes as the record labels and movie studios have made. As writers, our production costs are lower. We as consumers have far more choice now, and even have the chance to tell aspiring authors how to improve their craft, before they had just the people in the publishing chain.
Your book did not cover the archetypal bookworm. There are enough of us to warrant a term and category - I have never ever stuck to specific genre in fact I am wondering right now if the there is a genre I won't read from. I also suspect those of us that stuff our houses full of books form a good portion of the market. My bookshelf contains historicals, literary fiction, horror, fantasy, humour, crime, lightreading, detective fiction, kids books, classics, chick lit, general fiction, romance, gay literature, african american literature, poetry, plays, music sheets and my ebook collection has had erotica and romance added to it courtesy of people I beta read for. (quite interesting since I exchange very chaste fantasy and detective fiction with them) Personally I read non fiction as avidly and with as much relish as a fiction book - I mean the story of the cosmos is fascinating. Its just generally more expensive than a paperback fiction book. I can usually buy three or four fiction books for the same price as the riveting text book. (sometimes more) I don't just buy books to read, I buy books to add to my shelves if the book isn't something I will want to keep then the library is a better place to get them. Fact is the good old bookworm like myself probably accounts for a huge proportion of the market - we are the floating voter of the book world the one you have to grab. Like the people who don't normally read fantasy but read Harry Potter. Your list misses out the most dedicated section of book buyers. These are the ones that will try a new author if the cover or blurb look good. And the ones that will soak up the ebooks because it removes the stress about space. They are the reader that will say - hey I tried this new book its great you should read it. If you miss out this sixth category and don't sell to them - your chances are breaking it as a new author are slim, as they are the ones that will be attracted to try you our BECAUSE you are a new author and they haven't read you before.
You forgot, "Those who are forced to read the propoganda of totalitarian governments under the fear of execution." That's always been a popular one, and has kept the publishing industry afloat for years.
LOL I love it but you do raise an interesting point if you don't understand your market you can't sell to it. Maybe I should start flirting with a military dictator or at very least get teens convinced they need to read my book so like with Potter and Meyer the totalitarian regime that exists in most high schools will sell my book for me.
I'm almost certain that Twilight is a subliminal text designed to turn teenage fangirls into starry-eyed drones.
