1. Ayo
    Offline

    Ayo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2011
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Boston, MA

    What do you think your output would be?

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Ayo, Jan 5, 2012.

    If you spent every moment of your freetime honing your craft?
     
  2. Cacian
    Offline

    Cacian Banned

    Joined:
    Oct 25, 2011
    Messages:
    1,907
    Likes Received:
    5
    Ayo
    What do you mean by 'honing your craft'?
    Is it the same as 'perfecting your skill/talent'?
     
  3. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    Large amounts of bad, bad writing.

    I have other commitments: my friends, my guitar, shooting; but reading, and being a good reader, is essential to being a good writer.
     
  4. Pea
    Offline

    Pea super pea!

    Joined:
    Mar 15, 2011
    Messages:
    330
    Likes Received:
    20
    Location:
    in the garden
    Well, if you mean writing... does reading and reviewing count? Imo they're vital for gaining skill in writing, and the need to write. Experiences of life in my free time help my writing, whenever I'm doing something else a writing idea will start forming in my head or continuing a thought I had previously into something that's usable. I don't think if I used much more time than I already do I'd get much done, partly because of lazyness - I could never buckle down and write for several hours when I just don't feel like it, trying just ends up with a useless rambling script that gets put in the bin anyway. I would also have less inspiration for good writing because of missing out on the experiences aforementioned. But others may be different, I don't know. Surely people with an extremely busy life - kids to look after, fulltime job - would appreciate it more.
     
  5. mammamaia
    Offline

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2006
    Messages:
    19,316
    Likes Received:
    1,014
    Location:
    Coquille, Oregon
    i don't see how the amount of time spent on 'honing your craft' can possibly relate to how much writing you would do after you've reached that maximum level of writing skill...
     
  6. Ayo
    Offline

    Ayo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2011
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    Yep that's what I mean

    And relatively large amounts of good writing too.. write? I mean right?

    Yeah I think it would, though maybe it's an easier and not as efficient method for producing work ( at least for me. )

    The more you hone your craft, the more refined you are in expressing yourself, I think? And the more refined you are, the more you can express your nuances, your individuality... your own sh*t. The more you can do that, the more you can express everyone elses sh*t, too. I'm not sure there is a maximum level of writing skill but maybe there is a knee of the curve, where if you devote enough time you get to that knee and are well-rehearsed enough to completely convert all fuel to flame, and if your engine can run on any fuel, in this world the writing would be endless.
     
  7. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    No. In the same way you need to love listening to music if you want to be a good guitarist. If you just practice and practice, and never learn what music is all about, you'll end up as DragonForce. Wasted noise that says nothing, does nothing, and with nothing to it: no feeling or anything.
     
  8. Jhunter
    Offline

    Jhunter Mmm, bacon. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2011
    Messages:
    1,233
    Likes Received:
    45
    Location:
    Southern California
    For shame!

    Dragonforce is awesome.

     
  9. Jhunter
    Offline

    Jhunter Mmm, bacon. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2011
    Messages:
    1,233
    Likes Received:
    45
    Location:
    Southern California
    You will most assuredly get faster at writing (your output would be greater) if you spent all your free time writing. But, that doesn't mean the quality will be any better.
     
  10. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    I hate Dragonforce. This is why:


    This is making my ears sad.

    This however:


    I think it's easy to see how this is still relevant to the topic.
     
  11. Jhunter
    Offline

    Jhunter Mmm, bacon. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2011
    Messages:
    1,233
    Likes Received:
    45
    Location:
    Southern California
    Well, there is obviously no comparing Tool and Dragonforce.

    Tool is infinitely better in every way. I have only seem them live twice. It makes me sad.

    Though, I might be going to see them in Vegas this month; if I have the money.
     
  12. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    Tool are a great band. I'm kind of jealous you have the chance to go and see them; I don't think they are touring the UK any time soon. :(
    And yes. This diversion is all still relevant: it's proving a point.
     
  13. Jhunter
    Offline

    Jhunter Mmm, bacon. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2011
    Messages:
    1,233
    Likes Received:
    45
    Location:
    Southern California
    Yeah, that is a bummer. =[

    I got lucky the first time I saw them at sixteen, they were still only playing Undertow and ├ćnima songs. It was intense.

    Though, I love their new stuff. But, the old stuff is really nostalgic for me.


    P.S. Sorry for the thread derailing OP.
     
  14. Ayo
    Offline

    Ayo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2011
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    If you just write and write it will kill your love for writing? I don't think so.. I feel like the love will only grow as you become more attached to the craft and more able to translate your experiences into it and into something sharable.. after a certain amount of dedication and time it might even be like a spouse to you. I don't think Dragonforce is a good example because Herman Li maybe practiced a bunch of technique and little feeling ( I do really like some Dragonforce for the record ) but Bach and Beethoven composed music in this dedicated way and we don't even need to mention how much feeling they output over their life and how much they loved their craft.

    Beethoved had tons of drafts of his melodies and some of them don't sound any good.. of course we only hear the final. So large amounts of noise, yes, but large amounts of real music too. I don't think prose is much different, especially since with writing it is very hard, unless you have some kind of monotone monologue, to write without any feeling at all.

    You'll find more mithril if you're constantly down in Moria searching, don't ya think? I don't see how anyone can disagree with this.. I really was expecting this to be a numbers thread, like "Oh I might could get a good book out a year and a ton of sh*t short stories", or something like that but this is interesting discussion we are having.

    Tool is awesome too, "Right in Two" is one of my favorite songs of all time, but I think that's a different kind of discussion based in the fact that apparently DF has no feeling. Do you go on rollercoasters for the thrill? Yeah, and thrill is a feeling based on speed. I think that's what DF goes for. Also electronic music can be some of the most feeling stuff you ever heard but a lot of people might be like "Oh it's not authentic it's set to a perfect tempo, there is no feeling.", but hey whatever makes you feel makes you feel.
     
  15. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    It's funny you should say this, because that isn't what I wrote or meant. :rolleyes:

    So ... you agree with me?
     
  16. Jhunter
    Offline

    Jhunter Mmm, bacon. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2011
    Messages:
    1,233
    Likes Received:
    45
    Location:
    Southern California
    All I was saying is:

    Just because someone can write a dozen novels a year doesn't necessarily mean they are good novels.

    But, to answer the original question more directly; if I spent the next five years writing all day every day--I could see myself writing at least one or two 250k-300k word novels a year after that much constant "honing" for so long a period of time.
     
  17. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    Writing <-> Reading.
    If you are not a good reader there is no chance you'll be a good writer. It logically follows.

    Besides, what is the point in writing if you have nothing interesting to say?
    Good fiction reflects a part of life, it tells the truth through a lie. That's what literature does. And the only way you can learn about life is to live it. To me writing isn't about getting published and earning more than Stephen King, writing is something I am rather than something I do - It's part of what makes me who I am. I don't mind if I can't make a living from writing, I'm happy just to write.
     
  18. Ayo
    Offline

    Ayo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2011
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I suppose I don't understand. You seemed to be saying that practicing constantly would hone technique but would leave little room for feeling.. my idea said the opposite. Yeah you need to read good books too, but that goes without saying ( even though I did say it in the first reply to Pea ) and is also a part of honing the craft, though not as important as writing itself.
     
  19. Ayo
    Offline

    Ayo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2011
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I agree with you. I think I'm on the same side as both of you on the quality VS quantity thing, but I am saying if you produce mass quantities of work, you will better understand what, to you, is quality, and what to you inspires you, and how to fuel that.

    Well, time never stops, life goes on whether you're writing through it or not, but if you're writing through it then you are like a translator for those ideas of fiction.. if you're not, those ideas die.
     
  20. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    What ideas are you talking about when you are just writing, never learning about what you could write about.

    Speaking for myself, if I didn't have my interests and my friends, my writing wouldn't be anywhere near as good - and I know it. I can write about shooting, because I shoot. I can write about playing in a small-time band, because I've done that. I've lived it. I know the good and the bad of it, and I can use my imagination to write about maybe writing about being in a more successful band. I mention shooting and playing in a band, because doing those two things create very unique feelings in the moment that you, as a writer, can build on. It's not about 'write what you know', that's not what I'm really saying, it's 'write what you can imagine'.

    To repost: Good fiction reflects a part of life, it tells the truth through a lie. That's what literature does. And the only way you can learn about life is to live it. To me writing isn't about getting published and earning more than Stephen King, writing is something I am rather than something I do - It's part of what makes me who I am. I don't mind if I can't make a living from writing, I'm happy just to write.
     
  21. Ayo
    Offline

    Ayo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2011
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    It'd depend on the writer but still the amount of experience is already there. You can write a whole story about a a piece of wood if you're into it enough. If you run out of stuff you know to write about, write about what you don't know and change the perspective and the tone of authority. It's endless. Your last paragraph is directed at an idea not presented here. I'm talking about how quality is numero uno, the love of writing itself is why we should write, but that love of quality can be fostered through quantity. I feel like I'm just repeating my idea over and over and maybe you feel the same.. maybe we just don't understand each other's ideas or maybe we just disagree. Either way Tool is still better than Dragonforce :).


    ps: but you gotta give Herman Li some credit.. dude's fast. Through The Fire and Flames makes me want to take an arrow to the knee
     
    1 person likes this.
  22. Jhunter
    Offline

    Jhunter Mmm, bacon. Contributor

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2011
    Messages:
    1,233
    Likes Received:
    45
    Location:
    Southern California
    Lol.
     
  23. Lemex
    Offline

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

    Joined:
    Oct 2, 2007
    Messages:
    10,507
    Likes Received:
    3,151
    Location:
    Northeast England
    I guess we are just debating the same thing from different perspectives. Either way, no biggie.

    I mention: I mentioned shooting and playing in a band, because doing those two things create very unique feelings in the moment that you, as a writer, can build on. It's not about 'write what you know', that's not what I'm really saying, it's 'write what you can imagine'. If you can imagine something you've never really done, and wrote it well, great. But some activities create emotions unique to them that if you've not done it you'll never really appreciate.

    And yeah. Li is fast. If that's all you want then I can't really complain. I really dislike Dragonforce. :p
     
  24. Ayo
    Offline

    Ayo Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2011
    Messages:
    36
    Likes Received:
    1
    Location:
    Boston, MA
    I dont know about you but I was crying as I typed, in vain, my messages...

    Yes we do seem to be doing that.. and it's interesting to read back over the conversation now.
     
  25. BFGuru
    Offline

    BFGuru Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2011
    Messages:
    510
    Likes Received:
    25
    Location:
    Somewhere in insomiaville
    The operative question is WHICH craft?
    I play piano. I have a music degree. It's a beautiful thing.
    I want to learn guitar. I have to practice in order to do that.
    I wish to write a book or two. I must write in order to do that, but I also must read to expand my pros and vocabulary.

    I have free time. I choose which craft to work on during those moments. But, at that point, I wouldn't call any of it free time if it is merely for the sake of "honing my craft". I do it all because I enjoy it. Any other reason would be a pitiful way to spend free time.
     

Share This Page