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  1. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    What's going on with the Ukraine?

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Lemex, Mar 1, 2014.

    OK, so it seems like a few hours ago all was pretty fine, I go to make a sandwich, and now the BBC are reporting that Russia is going to invade Ukraine. What in the hell is going on? I don't have a tuned TV, so this has all came very suddenly to me.
     
  2. JJ_Maxx
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    JJ_Maxx Banned

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    I don't know all of it, but apparently Ukraine is split into two distinct regions, one pro-Ukraine and one pro-Russia. Both sides say they are in control of the country and Russia has used the instability to authorize military action to stabilize the pro-Russia region of Ukraine, even though Ukraine is a sovereign nation and should have the right to not be invaded by Russia. But Russia has a lot of assets it wishes to protect in the pro-Russian region.

    Also, apparently the Russian soldiers have stripped off all their identifications so they look like some anonymous army.

    And of course Obama made another empty threat that will be ignored because he's yet to back up any promise with action.
     
  3. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Well...you guys kind of have most of it. We've been talking about this in the North Korea has to be stopped thread.
     
  4. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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  5. erebh
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    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

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    looks like the Russians have indeed invaded, scary shit. Putin says he is protecting Russian speakers, ergo Obama and Cameron can invade any country that accommodates English speakers - that's fucked up. I don't have any tv so haven't been keeping up. Please keep discussing to keep me up to speed. I believe the country is split into pro Europe and pro Russia but that's about it
     
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  6. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    I think in that article it said Ukraine is about 60% Russian, and Putin is using that as an excuse for invasion. He wants to protect the Russians there and the Russian 'interests.'

    :rolleyes:
     
  7. erebh
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    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

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    northern Ireland is about 50/50 uk/ Irish wannabes, does that mean Britain or Ireland can invade anytime they like or Mexico can invade the US whenever they like?
     
  8. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    According to International Law, no.
     
  9. erebh
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    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

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    so who holds putin accountable? Obama? Lol!
     
  10. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    No the U.N. had an emergency meeting, so we'll see what happens. Obama supposedly had an hour and a half phone call with Putin. They both don't like each other so I can only imagine what was said. How do you say, "Fuck you" in Russian? lol
     
  11. erebh
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    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

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    fuckski youski?
     
  12. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    That's Polish.
     
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  13. erebh
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    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

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    oh! Close enough...
     
  14. jazzabel
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    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

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    Crimea is an autonomous republic within Ukraine. It was transferred to Ukraine from Russia in 1954, within the USSR. Similar to Kosovo, an autonomous region within Serbia which opened it's borders with Albania in the 1950s, in context of Yugoslavia. This was to allow Albanian people to escape a tough communist regime there, which in turn changed the demographic of Kosovo. UK, USA, France, Germany and the rest of the EU bombed Serbia in 1999 in order to 'facilitate the desire of 'Kosovar' Albanians (because they didn't care about the desires of anyone else in Kosovo) to have independence from Serbia'. It's been known then, and it's been discussed now, that they will join up with Albania as soon as they can. The reason why this campaign was deemed illegal in the UN, amongst other reasons, was that it opened the door for similar aggression on sovereign nations which will affect Europe badly in the future.

    So Putin now is likewise protecting the 'desire of Crimean people (because he doesn't care about the desire of anyone else in the Ukraine) to have independence from Ukraine'. Both were claiming oppression and fear from the mother-country, the precedent's been set, Putin is well within his rights, or at least is within his rights as much as the US/EU were just a few years ago when they were doing the same thing on European soil and remained unpunished for it. In fact, they afforded themselves a Nobel Peace Prize. Obama too.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2014
  15. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    'Poshel na khuy' - honestly.

    But, the last I heard there are some 6,000 Russian soldiers in Ukraine, and Obama has 'warned Moscow any military intervention would come at a cost to Russia'. It's all getting a bit Tom Clancy.
     
  16. erebh
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    erebh Contributing Member Contributor

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    Obama, toothless tiger
     
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  17. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Pretty much, we know the guy isn't going to fuck with a country with nuclear weapons.
     
  18. Gallowglass
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    Gallowglass Contributing Member Contributor

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    It's all calmed down now, we can breathe easy. The Russians have stopped at Crimea, and made no moves to put Yanukoych back in power. Ukraine has said they'd only consider military action if Russia moves beyond that, something they seem to have no intention of doing. Unless Right Sector activate lemming mode, and start hurling themselves at Russian military barricades, this is as far as this situation goes.

    I don't seriously know what people could expect Obama to do. Personally I don't think he should do anything, but even if that was undoubtedly the case, what would he do? At most, he can secure guarantees of the rights of Ukrainian or Tatar Crimeans and order Yanukoych to be handed over the international authorities. He can't do what people expect, for the simple reason that Russia doesn't see the US as as important as the US electorate thinks it is.
     
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  19. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    Obama was never going to do anything anyway. To be honest, he's in a Catch-22. If he was more aggressive he'd be condemned for it as an imperialist, if he did nothing he'd be condemned for being an imperialist because there is no oil in the Crimea so why should he care. Either way you'll hear people say he's an evil, capitalist, imperialist, cynical scumbag, so just go with the course of action that doesn't lead to more death and more war. I think he handled it in the best way to be honest.
     
  20. Oswiecenie
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    Oswiecenie Active Member

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    Spierdalaj, pedale!

    Nailed it. At the end of the day, it's just the superpowers playing chess on the backs of the smaller nations. If Crimea should gain 'independence' as a client of the Russian Federation, it will end up just another dysfunctional narco-state like Kosovo. Ukraine in turn will be shoved into the arms of the no less corrupt West. No one wins except Washington, the Kremlin and the international Zionist lobby that, as usual, has its money on both sides.
     
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  21. jazzabel
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    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

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    'Zionist lobby' today is mainly state of Israel supporting any situation that ensures that chain of command can't be tried or convicted for war crimes. This has been firmly established in Hague, which is why that tribunal has been qualified, by some of their own judges, as 'death of international law'.

    This is another very important process that all the current powers, including Israel, are maintaining, so they can go around breaking the law without ever being convicted for it. It was only a matter of time before that exclusive club was forced to accept new members, in this case Russia. The thing is, we are increasingly aware that our world has no robust laws, ie. laws don't apply the richer you get. I know it's always been so, but it seems even more so these days.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2014
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  22. Gallowglass
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    Gallowglass Contributing Member Contributor

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    Ukraine's Foreign Minister has been trying to get in touch with his Russian counterpart for three days now, but he 'doesn't call back.'

    Damn.

    If you want to be a world-class politician, just imagine everyone around you is fifteen.
     
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  23. JJ_Maxx
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    JJ_Maxx Banned

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    Has he tried Facebook?
     
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  24. Gallowglass
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    Gallowglass Contributing Member Contributor

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    Nope, he's resorted to angst-ridden poetry and Linkin Park.
     
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  25. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Would you rather another Cold War? Or something a bit hotter?

    I'm no fan of Obama, but I am glad he is treading carefully in this matter. It's a horrible mess that can easily become far worse.
     
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