1. Torana
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    Torana Contributing Member Contributor

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    When is a person no longer a person?

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Torana, Dec 22, 2007.

    When is a person no longer a person?

    Just to throw this out there cause I noticed a discussion about it in the abortion thread and it has me curious as to know what everyone thinks on this topic.

    So when do you believe a person is no longer a person?

    and

    Why do you believe that?




    Torana
     
  2. lessa
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    lessa Contributing Member

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    Torana, a person will always be a person until they don't exist anymore.
    saying that, a person who has to be tied to a bed so they can't hurt themselves in their frantic movements at the sight of light or dark or some unseen entity. is not the person they were or want to be.
    That person no longer exists. Something new has taken over.

    I believe this because I have seen it so many times working in the nursing home. Not with people with dementia but other diseases of the brain that take away something of the person every day. That person is dieing little by little with no hope of them winning just watching the new person taking over. No drugs help these diseases so there is no hope.
    I am not talking about skitsofrenia sp. there are drugs for that it is the ones that there is no drug to help.
    I hope this makes sense.
     
  3. Torana
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    Torana Contributing Member Contributor

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    Yes but they are still a person. I saw someone posting in the abortion thread that people stop being people. But I really don't see how anyone can stop being someone even after they have passed on into the after life what ever that may be.

    Basically you are saying that once someone no longer exists they are no longer a person but how can they not be a person when they are remembered as such?

    I have lost friends and family to death and I still class them as a person. Am I wrong to do so? Are they still a person?

    If they aren't a person then why aren't they a person anymore? Just because they are no longer here in body? Is that when people stop being people? Or is it when we just decide that they are no longer people or we just forget about them?
     
  4. lessa
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    lessa Contributing Member

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    Most people think of a person as such until they die. Then they are no longer a physical being.
    I don't know what happens to the person after that but the physical part is buried or burned.
    But the memory of the person will always be around and many people think of the memories and talk of the person.
    So yes the person will always be remembered and loved or hated as the case may be but it no longer has the ability to do good or harm to anyone.
    He or she is a memory you can hold onto but you will never again be able to talk to and listen to the person.
    So maybe in a sense the person is never not a person in our minds and hearts just the physical person is gone.
    Even if the person's mind was affected you still have the memories of the person as well so that person is still a person.
    You have really opened up a good topic. will have to think more seriously about this one.
     
  5. Torana
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    Torana Contributing Member Contributor

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    Yes but even when they are no longer a physical being lessa they are still a person imo.

    I mean you can't just say "nah Shane ain't a person cause he is dead."

    That just sounds wrong to me personally.

    So if a person is brain dead are they still a person? Or are they nothing? I can't say that someone is nothing but a memory, nor nothing becuase they can't function and are living on machines. They are still a human being no matter what if you ask me. It isn't like once I die I become a rock or tree or a void. I am still me, just not alive.
     
  6. Cicero
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    Cicero Banned

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    "What makes a person a person?" is I think the question we need to answer.
     
  7. want2playwithurevilinside
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    want2playwithurevilinside Member

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    If a pesron is a person past and present wouldnt' it just be 'the human race'.
    I know what you mean tho, as i read the abortion thread.
    You mean what dynamics of the brain makes a person classified as a person.
    When it ocmes down to it, if someone gets in a crash and has brain damage, and develops the same brain copasity as as a feutus... they're still a person.
    I think what we define a person as is, a human, a feutus is a person not developed, or a person 'in the making'.. what you want to know is the point they are defined as a person.
    I think the moment they are concieved and begining to multiply as cells is their birth.. and they are alive in the cells that are reproducing, but so is an ant that you step on.
    you dont care about that ant. But a feotus being one of us is our own selfishness making us belive so strongly that we shouldnt kill them (abort).
    In saying that, a person is no longer a person if they are forgotten, because then they simply don't exist. The only thing keeping people people, is other people's awareness of them.
    If there is an old man living below your house, you would never know, and he would never be recorded as a person, although that does spring the idea that he is a perosn, and we could never define when a person isnt a person due to our awareness....
    I'm going to stop there because ive lost my point.
    Cheers
     
  8. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    pick your own personal favorite:

     
  9. Raven
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    Raven Banned

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    Tough Question. And I have no answer for.
    I see things as we will find out when we're meant to find out.
     
  10. Lord Midol
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    Lord Midol New Member

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    It depends on how you look at it.

    Personally, I only view a person as a person when they are a legal entity. A cadaver is not a legal entity.
     
  11. Leaka
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    Leaka Creative Mettle

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    I think a person never stops being a person. I mean there might be times when you think they are not, but we never stop developing. A person will always exist and nothing will change that.
    Not even death.
     
  12. Lord Midol
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    Lord Midol New Member

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    You're looking at it from a philosophical view point though.

    Technically, people cease to exist upon death. This is based upon the legal and scientific definitions of "person".
     
  13. Leaka
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    Leaka Creative Mettle

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    No I was looking at in my own technical way.

    Why should someone seize to being a person just because they die?
     
  14. Odinschild
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    Odinschild Member

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    They don't cease to become a person. They just make the transition from a physical thing that you can see, hear, and touch into an idea. And ideas last a lot longer than people do. You're correct in saying that a person doesn't really stop existing, even in death. Only when there's nobody left to remember them will they really stop existing.


    ...and that's my wacked out philosophical commentary for today... :cool:
     
  15. Lord Midol
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    Lord Midol New Member

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    I guess that also depends how you define technical.

    I personally define technical as applying scientific, engineering, mathematical or design principals/guidelines.

    Can a civil wrong be committed against someone who is dead? If so, what wrongs?
     
  16. Daniel
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    Daniel I'm sure you've heard the rumors. Founder Staff Contributor

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    Two questions.

    1) When does a person start becoming a person?

    2) How do we define dead? Comatose? Braindead? Brain and heart stoppage?
     
  17. Lord Midol
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    Lord Midol New Member

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    I don't believe a fetus becomes a person till it is able to function without the mother (so roughly 22 weeks).

    The next is rather iffy, for me. This is where it turns philosophical and I consider brain dead to be when a person ceases to exist. The brain is what makes you, it holds your history which defines who you are. Without that you don't exist.

    Technically speaking though (from a scientific view) I'd say dead is probably when your body ceases to function.
     
  18. Leaka
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    Leaka Creative Mettle

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    Your body still does function.
    It decomposes and thats function in itself.
     
  19. Cicero
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    Cicero Banned

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    So, when it's done decomposing and all of the atoms and particles have been dispersed throughout the universe.. it's still a person?

    So, could I say, "That tree over there.. is a person." ?
     
  20. Kid At <3
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    Kid At <3 Senior Member

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    I believe in reincarnation, so I agree with Leaka.
     
  21. Leaka
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    Leaka Creative Mettle

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    And that's what I'm talking about.

    I believe a sort of reincarnation happens. When the atoms disperse they spread around to create another life form.

    So there is never not a person.

    I find it rude to call a dead body not a person.
     
  22. Cicero
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    Cicero Banned

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    So, all things that decompose from humans go on to form other things. So, all things that decompose from other non-human things can also go on to form humans.

    Does that mean I am just as much rock as I am human?
     
  23. Leaka
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    Leaka Creative Mettle

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    No!
    Trees decompose and make trees.
    Humans decompose and make humans.
    Rocks decompose and make rocks.
    Its the way the world works.
     
  24. Cicero
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    Cicero Banned

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    Assuming I'll be buried; my body will decompose into the ground, and my particles will fuse into numerous things. Dirt, which leads to other things. The same goes for anything else.
     
  25. Leaka
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    Leaka Creative Mettle

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    Particles are the soul.
    Particles float and they don't get absorbed by the items that aren't part of that soul.
    If its a person soul its absorb by a person. And not rocks and coffin beds.

    If its a tree soul its absorb by a tree. And not anything else.

    A soul knows were to go.
     

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