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  1. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    When the idiocy comes from your own side

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Steerpike, Nov 28, 2015.

    I'm on the progressive side of things, as some of you already know. Little aggravates me more than when fellow progressives make an ass of our side. One area where people tend to go off the rails is cultural appropriation. See this news story:

    http://www.ottawasun.com/2015/11/20/free-ottawa-yoga-class-scrapped-over-cultural-issues

    This just seems asinine to me. Anyone think the student center was right?
     
  2. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    It would seem that the American mind is not the only one being coddled. Yes, this is asinine. What next? Do I need to concern myself when the Leftie Police smell the unmistakable aroma of a nice Thai curry coming from my kitchen and they find that I myself am not Thai?


    [​IMG]
     
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  3. Steerpike
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    Steerpike Felis amatus Supporter Contributor

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    Yeah, I wore my Peruvian poncho yesterday because it was cold out. Whoops!
     
  4. R.P. Kraul
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    R.P. Kraul Member

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    As I get older, I find myself moving toward the middle. What I've found is that both the extreme left and extreme right want the same thing: to control others.
     
  5. BrianIff
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    BrianIff I'm so piano, a bad punctuator. Contributor

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    Even with first-hand knowledge of how the national Canadian Federation of Students (whom the slate probably are, but I've been too lazy to check) are, I'm shocked. Maybe they wanted to save a buck and wrap it up in something to "right past wrongs?"
     
  6. Adenosine Triphosphate
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    Adenosine Triphosphate Old Scratch Contributor

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    What separates coddling from empathy? I mean that as a question, not an argument.

    (I'm trying to find a way to oppose things like this without being forced to accept the old middle school game of endless petty aggression.)
     
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  7. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Wuh-oh! I play video games created by Japanese people from Japan...AND I'M NOT JAPANESE!! :bigeek:

    Honestly, this is just political correctness once again rearing its ugly head. You can share in someone else's culture without appearing like a self-centered dick treating something of cultural significance as a commodity. It's called cultural diffusion. That's when two or more cultures share things from their own lands. That's why I get to play games created by Nintendo, and the poor fellas there get to eat the shit fast food from my homeland. :whistle::wtf::bigtongue: You're welcome, Japan.

    As I get older, I begin to see that both sides have their extremes. One side's all "Fuck other people's feelings!" and the other is all "Fuck common sense, treat people like porcelain dolls! They're incapable of deciding for themselves whether something is offensive or not!" to grossly simplify it all. I aim for the middle ground. Yoga is perfectly fine, and it's a great meditative tool to help you synch yourself with your body and it's all around relaxing and fun. Now, going around saying random Japanese phrases and acting like this makes me Japanese is not cool in my eyes. Running around in a feathered headdress and thinking this makes me a member of a Native American tribe is not cool.

    Things like performing Yoga is just that, performing a thing.

    @Adenosine Triphosphate - Empathy is understanding that what you do might be offensive to someone. For example, saying that a test raped me might be offensive to rape victims so that's something to keep in mind. Coddling is treating someone like he/she is a porcelain doll and trying to shield them from all possible offense; denying them the chance to decide for themselves whether that thing is offensive or not. For example, not wanting to listen to music written by Asian singers in front of your Asian friends because you fear this will offend them. It's empathy and sensitivity taken to it's logical extreme.
     
    Last edited: Nov 29, 2015
  8. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    No more French kissing you disgusting Americans!
     
  9. BrianIff
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    BrianIff I'm so piano, a bad punctuator. Contributor

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    While we're at it, can we *please* have the Stanley Cup back?
     
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  10. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Only when you take Beiber back and keep him.
     
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  11. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    THIS!

    Please, Canada, do us Yanks a solid and take this fool away from us! I BEG OF YA!!

    I mean, we've got enough annoying celebrities who are native to our homeland. We don't want one of your annoying celebrities.
     
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  12. BrianIff
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    BrianIff I'm so piano, a bad punctuator. Contributor

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    Hmph. So you guys wanna play hardball, eh? ... faaaack -_- The decision isn't time-limited, right?
     
  13. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Nah, we've got



    *is shot at hundreds of times*
     
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  14. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    We'll even let you have Celine Dion back. We're going to keep Micheal J. Fox, but we'll give up the rights to Micheal Myers for him.
     
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  15. BrianIff
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    BrianIff I'm so piano, a bad punctuator. Contributor

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    Can't imagine all the parents he must've drove crazy:

    "Can I go to the Justin concert, daddy?"
    "I dunno, whadyur mudder say?"
    "She said it's up to you."
    "Hmm. What's wrong wit the boys at school? Find yourself a good American one, at least a linebacker."
    "But dAhad, it's JuUhstiin!"
     
  16. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    For some reason this reminds me of the Dave Chappelle "Race Draft" skit. That was freaking hilarious. I can't find a good version of it on Youtube though. Here is the best they got.

     
  17. BrianIff
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    BrianIff I'm so piano, a bad punctuator. Contributor

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    Seems good, but I can't watch it like that. Okay, it looks like we might have something workable here. And because we're so nice, we'll toss in Drake and Nickelback for free. It's a good deal, man.

    [​IMG]
     
  18. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    No we don't want Drake. The only people that like him are rich people like sports stars. By the Way we are stealing Rush, and in return you can have Hansen.
     
  19. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    I'm pretty reluctant to jump to a judgement based on one newspaper article. Reading between the lines, it seems at least possible to me that the line "we need to be mindful...of how we express ourselves when doing yoga" is significant.

    If this was straight-up yoga, I agree that it seems like a strange thing to complain about. But I've been part of yoga classes that focused pretty hard on a sort of mystical, spiritual approach to things rather than a physical, psychological approach. If the mystical, spiritual stuff was presented by a white woman borrowing and/or misusing concepts from an oppressed culture, I can see how that would be problematic.

    I'm just speculating with all of that, obviously. But if we're going to be all proud of ourselves for taking a stand against extremism and knee-jerk reactions, I feel like we should be pretty damn careful we aren't making knee-jerk reactions in the opposite direction.

    We don't have the whole story here. I can imagine a type of yoga that I wouldn't want supported with my student-fee dollars. Whether that's the type of yoga being practised in this case? None of us knows.
     
  20. Ben414
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    Ben414 Contributing Member Contributor

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    One can read entire books on the subject (thank you Race and Ethnicity sociology course), start to formulate your own opinions on the matter, and still be unable to cogently put together a formula that separates the two. I think too many people rely on ideologies that try to rely on the empathy/coddling dichotomy instead of focusing on the practical effects of the behavior being judged. I would write about this more, but I would need a while to think through the issue and write something worthwhile. A basic summation would be that I think this is an area where dogmatism plays too large of a role for people on both extremes of the issue.
     
  21. BrianIff
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    BrianIff I'm so piano, a bad punctuator. Contributor

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    You mean you don't find The Sun reputable, upholding the highest journalistic standards? ;)
     
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  22. Adenosine Triphosphate
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    Adenosine Triphosphate Old Scratch Contributor

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    The problem is that a lot of the words and symbols people get offended by are somewhat fucked up on an individual level. At the same time, attempting to stamp them all out is cumbersome and aggressive itself.

    On the other hand, if you try to force everyone to pretend that things are fine, you're stifling free expression just as much as any liberal set of codes.
     
  23. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    I hear what you're saying, but in terms of "attempting to stamp them out" and "try to force everyone" - I think it's important to remember that most of the time when these really extreme situations arise, it's not a question of anyone trying to stop an activity outright as it is a decision to stop paying for the activity. I think that's a distinction worth making.

    If a group of elected officials at a university decide that they aren't comfortable spending money entrusted to them by their community on something that may or may not be damaging to that community? It's a lot different than if, for example, the dean of the university made a rule that no students are allowed to engage in yoga. You know?

    For an example from the other end of the spectrum - it's a lot different, to me, for the owners of Hobby Lobby to refuse to pay for birth control than it would have been for them to try to ban any of their employees from using birth control. I still think it's an objectionable, misogynistic decision and I'll never shop there and whatever, but it's not as big of a problem for me, if that makes sense?

    Financial support of an activity suggests approval of that activity. Refusing financial support doesn't necessarily suggest a desire to stamp it out completely.
     
  24. Bookster
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    Bookster Banned

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    Agreed, and that's what made Sandra Fluke's fifteen minutes of fame so objectionable. Use all the birth control you want - just pay for it yourself.
     
  25. BayView
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    BayView Contributing Member Contributor

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    Well, I'd take the opposite approach, but - topic for a different thread, probably.
     
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