When to Ask

Discussion in 'Support & Feedback' started by EdFromNY, May 30, 2014.

  1. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    Sorry I haven't had a chance to post until now...I spent all day yesterday wrestling with a picnic table set.

    Exactly, Lew. And my concern is that by answering, we encourage them to keep asking rather than developing their own writing chops. As @jannert said, write first, ask questions later.
     
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  2. mammamaia

    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    jannert...
    adding a 'brainstorming' section is an excellent idea... another writing site i post on daily has one and it works well...

    my concern as well, ed... it's the old bit about 'give a man a fish' vs 'teach a man to fish'... handing beginners ideas and answers they really need to come up with and find out on their own is not really being helpful...

    as a mom of many, i liken it to my kids standing in front of the fridge asking, 'what's there to eat, Mom?' when all they need to do is open the door and see what's there!

    how did those of you who read all those questions learn what you give as answers?... did you find out by asking someone to tell you, or look it up for you?... or did you look it up on your own?

    how did you all get ideas for your writing projects and characters and plot elements, et al.?... by asking someone to come up with them for you?... or by exercising your own imagination?
     
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  3. peachalulu

    peachalulu Member Reviewer Contributor

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    I think the thing that bugs me is the level of simplicity of the questions. Is this a good character? What should I call my fairie empress? Is there anything wrong with me because I want to write about some evil serial killer whose the mc. Arrgh! I'd rather talk about character layering, or symbolism in characters, or the character's object of interest. Sometimes I think there should be a thread to talk about advanced writing subjects.
     
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  4. Okon

    Okon Contributor Contributor

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    I think we need a thread to talk about new threads. The new thread thread! Oh goosh.
     
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  5. Andrae Smith

    Andrae Smith Bestselling Author|Editor|Writing Coach Contributor

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    I actually second this, to an extent. It is similar to my post about writers being scared to start. They don't trust themselves to step out on faith and try because they think they might fail. As I tell people trying to be good at anything: I used to throw discus in high school. I've coached it too. I had students who were afraid to spin because they couldn't see behind them. Well our ring has metal poles around it, and everyone on the team has at least one dent on one of them from a bad spin. But those who got better were the ones who learned to trust their own feet and go through the motions enough times to correct and improve. In 4 years, my form went through 4 big changes, but I was League Champ in the end and had eared the respect of a handful of coaches and athletes.
     
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  6. Andrae Smith

    Andrae Smith Bestselling Author|Editor|Writing Coach Contributor

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    What would we talk about? :wtf:
     
  7. Okon

    Okon Contributor Contributor

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    New threads. I suppose I wasn't clearo_O...
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2014
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  8. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    OK, sorry for the delay since this thread was in response to my response to Ed's response in the thread, Why/how would characters from books suddenly come to life?

    First let me say how much I appreciated @EdFromNY's not seeing my post as an attack on him, but rather one defending the thread's originator, new member @Usagi.

    I do look at the newness of a member when deciding how to answer. Some of you may recall I pointed this out with another situation, the infamous, "do you think this is a good story idea", question we get frequently. Yes the answer is, "We can't tell until you write it." But there is a kinder and a less kind way to give that answer. I suggested we use the kinder answer. And if one is tired of the question, which is understandable, it's better not to answer than to express that annoyance, especially when it's a new member asking the question.

    IMPORTANT: I don't think Ed's reaction to the OP in question was unkind. That was not the issue. Ed's answer was kind. It didn't contain the condescension that I complained about earlier. But it still said to the new member, the question wasn't something to ask in the forum.

    This was the question:
    This was Ed's answer:
    I perceived the question differently than Ed did.

    I've looked at the difference in perception that I had to the question: Brainstorming by committee. The perception Ed had was plot/story writing by committee. I believe that difference in perception contains the answer to this thread's question, when to ask?

    The answer probably lies on a continuum, and perception is going to differ even if it didn't, but, when is a question brain storming and when is it the proverbial, "Is this a good story or idea?" or "What should I write?"

    For me, it comes down to the narrowness of the question and how well the rest of the story is developed.

    @Usagi asked merely for a single plot issue she was struggling with. That's brainstorming. She did say, " I know roughly what I want the story to revolve around." "Roughly" can be interpreted differently, from a vague idea to something approximating a solid idea. It does suggest the writing hasn't started.

    "What I haven't figured out yet is how or why these book characters are suddenly coming to life," can be interpreted as a major story element with implications important to the story, or it can be interpreted as a limited story element the author only wants to make sense, so there isn't a giant plot hole readers are going to trip on.

    If it's not clear what the member is asking, ask for a clarification. If you aren't in a good mood, don't reply (not looking at Ed). If they want to know if their story idea is good, gently nudge them to start writing and find out.

    I thought the question was brainstorming a plot hole. So I answered Ed in my usual not socially correct annoyed way. Yes, I definitely need to take my own advice... ;)

    ... followed with some ideas and a forum welcome.

    Ed was kind me, hopefully because he knows I meant well, I wasn't just trying to be snitty. That he said he respects me was incredible. :oops: For what it's worth, I do care what you have to say, and find your advice excellent. We just perceived the OP differently in this case. That's what I should have said.

    This for example from the OP I couldn't agree more with:
    Where do we differ then on legit questions:
    Rather than 'legit', I think I would choose to say, what are the questions the forum is a good place to seek an answer?

    I notice the things on the list are mostly questions involving sought after writing expertise. What isn't on the list is the occasional brainstorming this kind of forum can also be a productive place to seek answers.

    I mentioned that I have used my son for brainstorming many times. I pick his brain for a 24 yr old's view of the political narratives and his view of all the misinformation that saturates our culture currently. He's very insightful. He noticed, for example, that we accept the bombardment of advertising that we are exposed to every day. A person who wasn't used to that level of advertising saturation would be asking, why do people put up with that?

    It's funny because later @Wreybies mentioned his recollection of California was, all billboards. None had been allowed in Hawaii so they stood out when his family drove across the country. I hadn't thought of it, but I'm aware of if now, the things which we are attenuated to which not everyone would be.

    That's brainstorming. Crowdsourced brainstorming to me is very different from asking someone to fill in larger blanks in one's plot. I agree with the rest of Ed's reply to the thread in question: Start writing. Solutions will usually become apparent. The story needs to be the writer's.

    'How can I explain some book characters coming to life but not others' is a legitimate question for crowdsourced brainstorming.
     
    Last edited: Jun 2, 2014
  9. Robert_S

    Robert_S Senior Member

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    Was it narrated by a Frenchman?

    No such thing as a bad question, but there is such a thing as procrastination by socializing.
     
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  10. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    I think it was matter of a fact.
     
  11. Robert_S

    Robert_S Senior Member

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    I'm drinking, don't dis me bro.
     
  12. Lewdog

    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    I was being serious. He was either french or Australian. I vaguely remember the guy having some kind of accent.
     
  13. Robert_S

    Robert_S Senior Member

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    I'm sorry. I got my Holy Grail scenes mixed up. Happens when you have two scenes of people berating the king from a castle wall, trying to be remembered by a drunkard 20 years later. This is the proper scene:



    This is the scene I mixed it up with:

     
    Last edited: Jun 3, 2014
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  14. aikoaiko

    aikoaiko Senior Member

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    I'm sure a lot of it, too, just comes from simple lack of confidence. When you teach a class of young kids something new for the first time the walls literally echo with ridiculous questions. Eventually they understand it better and the questions become more reasonable. I am not trying to compare anyone here with a class of kids, of course, but I think you know what I mean.:)
     
  15. jazzabel

    jazzabel Agent Provocateur Contributor

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    This is a much more polite version of a thread I was going to start in response to what seems a recent flood of such requests. "I'm thinking about writing a story. It could be about a person, or a thing, maybe? All ideas are appreciated".

    'Brainstorming' section would be excellent, so we can move all such threads there, rather than them cluttering the rest of the content.
     
  16. 123456789

    123456789 Contributor Contributor

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    "Do you think this is a good idea for a story?"

    The answer is usually no. Most people's ideas are extremely basic and cliche, and their posts and or writing samples suggest a similar approach to the actual writing. Next time someone asks if their idea sounds good just tell them the truth.

    "NO, I am not interested in another apocalypse story. Quite frankly I have no reason to believe your story will have anything to offer that its predecessors don't. Your twist is convoluted and predictable. Better luck next time!"
     
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2014
  17. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    I agree with the second part of this more than the first. The very fact that they feel the need to ask is a bad sign.
     
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  18. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    I can relate. Until I actually started writing, deciding what to write was always daunting. I envied writers that had original story ideas.

    Then things changed for me. I no longer wondered how I'd come up with a plot. Instead, it became about the story I wanted to tell. I built the plot around it.

    If I had any advice for the person asking, Is this a good story?, it would be, what is the story you want to tell? Not the plot, not the sequence of events, but the story?

    Then I'd probably need another hour to explain and I've have to go to work right now. :p
     
  19. graphicsmyway

    graphicsmyway Banned

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    coconut will migrate when?
     
  20. Hwaigon

    Hwaigon Senior Member

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    Though having pitfalled myself into asking some unnecessarily fearful questions, I am glad I've figured out most of what you said for myself as a result of observing the world around me, which resulted in a sort of self-enlightenment.
    Your post gives me a profound feeling of satisfaction and a premonition of being on the right track.
     
  21. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    Humans fear the un-known. That's all it is, having the balls to step out of your comfort zone.
     
  22. cutecat22

    cutecat22 The Strange One Contributor

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    Or as someone once said, "if there's a story you want to read but it's not out there, write it!"
     

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