Where should I best split off the timeline?

Discussion in 'Setting Development' started by skistovasti, May 31, 2013.

  1. EdFromNY

    EdFromNY Hope to improve with age Supporter Contributor

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    Enterprise was not sunk at Midway, only Yorktown (and she probably could have been saved, as it happens). And the development of nuclear weapons is what doomed Japan, and would have in all events. Losing Yamamoto was a huge morale boost for the Americans and a blow to Japan, but much more critical was the fact that in all the carrier battles of 1942, lost Japanese pilots were lost for good, hardly any were rescued. Moreover, their manufacturing plants could not keep up the level of production needed to replace lost aircraft the way American plants could, and they didn't develop a single significant new plane after the start of the war, while the US developed the F6F fighter, TBF torpedo bomber and the B-29 Superfortress, as well as the New Jersey and Iowa class battleships.

    As for the rest of your scenario, there was no Communist China until 1949, and there was no way Chiang Kai-shek and Mao Tse Tung were going to conduce a full civil war until after Japan was defeated. If anything an earlier end to the Pacific war might help you. But I stick to my original judgment that the USSR can't look east until Germany is done, and until Japan is nearly done as well.

    @Nikolay - I believe the British zone of occupation, like that of the French and American, were all in West Germany. The USSR was alone in the East.
     
  2. Nikolay

    Nikolay New Member

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    You suggest me to rewrite my history by my hands, do you understand what you're talking about? What if I'll suggest you to rewrite the history of your own country?
    There can't be no elaborations of American Victories, as it's mainly Soviet victory in this war.
    Brits and Poles. Brits already made a videogame where Soviet forces don't fight, where Brits with united coalition fight with Japanese. Looks like that war was straightly northern than USSR and went to the Japan. Looks like that war was on the North Pole only.
    Pushing the Russians back is a straight provocation not against USSR only, but against Russia.
    Who will allow the new powers to rule sovereign lands? How do you think West Germany will allow to be governed by Britain, France and America?
    East Germany was under jurisdiction of equal allies-winners Americans, Brits, Frenchs.
    At 7th of September, 1945, was the Parade of Allies in Berlin. 3:09 Zhukov, Patton, Koenig, Robertson.
    The voice of Zhukov was recorded by BBC.
     
  3. skistovasti

    skistovasti New Member

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    The reason I'm trying to sort of make the USSR the "woobie" in this is BECAUSE of how damned successful they were against the Germans. For every 10 Germans that died, 8 died by Russian hands. The Russians not only kicked German ass, but they grabbed the Germans by the collar, dragged them into an alley, and beat the living hell out of them(metaphorically, of course). It's not some effort to glorify the US. I'm sorry if it seems like I'm some patriotic asshole, or that I'm one of the "Damned rookies!" guys. I'm not. I'm a big fan of the Red Army and what they did. I think they're grossly underrepresented in modern media depicting WW2, and they have several unfair stereotypes that make absolutely no sense (for instance, the whole "One man gets a rifle, the other gets bullets" bullcrap. The Russians had the 2nd highest manufacturing capability in the war, outnumbered only by the US) The reason I chose "Brits and Poles" was to A) Not involve the US in Germany's defeat in an effort to lower the "patriotism scale", and B) In reality the Poles really were a badass army. For over a month they held off a two-front invasion against 2 massively superior countries, and if they received assistance they could have done even more. Ever hear of the Warsaw Uprising? Well, what if it worked? What if, with the aid of the Red Air Force, RAF, and some British troops, they were able to push the Germans back? Suddenly, you have an army-which historically the Armia Krajowa had the highest amount of kills of any of the resistance armies, and actually fought several large-scale battles-that is not only pissed off, but ready to fight for revenge and for their country.
     
  4. skistovasti

    skistovasti New Member

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    Yeah, I know that the only the Yorktown was the only one that was sunk, sorry. Probably should have made that clear. I was always under the impression that the reason Japan was able to make such large advances against China was because the Chinese were too busy fighting each other and couldn't work together. Didn't realize that was so wrong.

    Okay. Historically, in the Marianas Turkey Shoot, we devastated the Japanese, but not as much as we could have. What if in the alternate, Spruance acted much more aggressively, and completely wiped out the IJN task force? Beyond that, I'm adamant that Nuclear weapons are either never developed, or they could be used once and never developed again. The former would be more realistic. What other ways can you think of making Japan lose faster? Killing the emperor may work, wouldn't it? Probably be hard or impossible, though.
     
  5. archerfenris

    archerfenris Active Member

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    The Americans lose Midway and as such don't deploy troops to Europe until after 1946. D-day happens late. Relations with Russia go sour after they refuse to allow free elections in eastern europe (like Stalin promised). Simply have China and Russia be friends. I don't see a problem with them allying as two of the largest communist countries. It's your story. Whatever you say goes.
     
  6. Nikolay

    Nikolay New Member

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    It's still provocation.
    This calls "history reviewing".
     
  7. maskedhero

    maskedhero Active Member

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    I'm trying to find a point in time where A)Nazi Germany can actually keep fighting,
    and B) The USSR and China will combine into one giant supernation.

    A. Nazis were in trouble for a long time. To make the European side of the war continue for so long would be difficult to justify, unless you changed something big, like England being entirely wiped out, ending their two-front war (effectively). That could've made them focus more on being a fortress (defending against an allied invasion, some day), and putting more effort into the Eastern front.

    As to China...it isn't really unified for a while, given the whole civil war aspect, so having them combine would need to happen prior to the split they had in the 1950's.
     
  8. raven6625

    raven6625 Member

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    On an accuracy note, I'm fairly sure less than half of the German casualties were on the eastern front(out of about 5.5million total), where as Military deaths in the soviet army alone are estimated to be as high as 12million... Hardly an ass kicking? And that is just on an attrition scale. The fact that the USSR made no strategic headway into German war efforts would also count against that point...

    Any-who, you've already talked about the Japanese progress(slaughter) into China, this happened because china simply wasn't the power-house that it is today. It was a dirt poor, post civil-war, agricultural wasteland...

    It is hard to think of a small (single battle scale) change would create the outcome you want, I think you're in for the big swinging changes! :) I've posted two ideas below, you've gotta love historical fiction!

    1) zee Germans convince Mexico to invade USA earlier in the war, they team up with the Japanese, and hit at the same time as pearl harbor. This frees Chinese forces to help Russia, and takes American forces out of the D-Day plan for another few years, keeping both sides fighting for longer.

    2) the Molotov–Ribbentrop Pact of '39 holds. Germany never invades Russia. The USSR focuses it's forces on freeing China from the empire of Japan and happiness ensues.

    These are large scale changes, but, In writing the battles and letters and largely remain the same. (Britain still tries to liberate France, A-bombs get dropped etc)
    Take a look at Robbert Harris' - Fatherland - if you get a chance. Some excellent examples of mucking history about in that book ^^
     

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