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  1. izzybot

    izzybot (unspecified) Contributor

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    Novel openings: expectation vs reality

    Discussion in 'Fantasy' started by izzybot, Jul 15, 2017.

    So, my wip opens up on one of the mcs fighting a Unique Fantasy Creature(tm) from the Unique Fantasy Setting(tm). He gets his ass handed to him is bested and the second mc shows up, saves him, and when he passes out we switch to a fresh new chapter and the second character's pov.

    I like this opening because it's in medias res, introduces the Unique Fantasy Creatures(tm) who'll keep popping up throughout (informing the setting as a side effect), establishes the mc as a swordman (which is primarily what he defines himself by, another recurring theme), and is a good window into his character in general via how he thinks about this skirmish as a microcosm (he's optimistic / reckless and tends to go with his gut / not plan shit). I'm also a big fan of "start as close to the end as possible," and this is literally just a few minutes before the two mcs see each other for the first time, so there's that - I can't really just skip ahead, I don't think.

    But I don't like it because, honestly, I'm not super interested in writing fight scenes, and I feel like opening on one implies that there's gonna be more / they're going to be a prominent feature of the book ... and in the ensuing 95,000w, there's about one and a half. Plus, combat is kind of a mainstay in fantasy at large afaik, so I already kinda feel like I'm failing to deliver on that front. One of my two betas mentioned that she skimmed the battle scenes, so I think it's likely that my heart wasn't really into writing them, and if they're easily skim-able it's probably not great to open on one.

    Also, the skirmish itself only takes ~600w (about half the length of the first chapter), so it's entirely possible I'm overthinking this entire thing (woo).

    In a more vague sense, I suppose my question would be: how much does the opening scene impact what you expect from the rest of a novel? EG, if it opens on a swordfight, do you expect more swordfights, and would you be potentially let down by the fact that there aren't that many? I tend to think that the opening should set the tone for the rest of the thing, but swordfight = more swordfights may be taking it a bit over-literally.
     
  2. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    This kind of opening scene will work ...but only if readers can get an immediate grip on what is going on. Who is the main character? Why should we care what happens to him? What are the stakes in this fight? What is already familiar to us in this scene? Thoughts? Feelings? Setting? Characters? Goals? There needs to be something we can relate to here.

    Just opening with whack parry whack does NOT do it, no matter how well-described the fight may be. What readers are doing during any opening scene is trying to get oriented to the world of the story and discover what matters and what doesn't. That means you need to start with something we recognise and can relate to and move from there.

    It's not what kind of scene you open with that matters. It's how it's presented and why it's important to the story that matters.

    As to whether I'd expect more swordfights as the novel moves on? I don't think I would read a novel simply because it contains swordfights, or any other kind of fight. There has to be a lot more to the story than whack parry whack. And that 'lot more' needs to be established in the opening scene. Whether more swordfights follow is irrelevant, really.
     
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  3. izzybot

    izzybot (unspecified) Contributor

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    That makes a lot of sense. Breaking that opening scene down by paragraph, I think too many of them could be summarized as all or mostly action with not enough characterization. I know what I need to work on now. Thanks a lot!
     
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  4. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I'd say more than characterisation, maybe focus on the reason for the fight. What's at stake? What is the purpose of the fight? You can set that up fairly quickly, without having to go into tons of backstory and description. And if your POV character is strong (in the sense of memorable and interesting) you'll be on your way.
     
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  5. izzybot

    izzybot (unspecified) Contributor

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    Characterization is my main focus, since the story's meant to be character driven and now that I'm reading this opening again, I realize that there's almost none mixed into the actual skirmish. Stakes and goals are pretty easy to get in there - making sure the character comes through as more than a guy swinging a sword is the most important thing, I reckon.
     
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  6. BayView

    BayView Huh. Interesting. Contributor

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    I think it would work if you really minimize the action aspect of it... as previously discussed, focus on the characterization, only give me enough details about the fight for me to understand why the character's doing what he's doing, and carry on. Also, do you really need the full fight, or just the resolution?

    In my voice, so not a real suggestion, but just as an idea:

    I refused to give up. I was pinned against the wall and the damn creature's jagged teeth would be the last thing I'd ever see, but I kept my eyes open and struggled to raise my sword for one last parry. Death? Yeah, not much I could do about that. But surrender? Hell, no.

    The creature came at me, straight on just like every other time. Absolutely confident, and essentially toying with me. If I could just get one cut in, one mark to at least inconvenience the bastard while he was picking bits of me out of his molars... I swung hard. Too hard, and I overbalanced, stumbled as my sword swished through empty space, and then I felt the jaws on me. Grabbing me, crushing pressure on my ribs so I couldn't breathe, couldn't scream...

    And then it stopped.
    Or whatever. But I'd keep the fight as short as possible by starting at the end, and then not worry about too many details of the fight, either.
     
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  7. izzybot

    izzybot (unspecified) Contributor

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    Oh yeah, I'm already coming in like two blows from the end of the fight - I briefly considered starting before the fight just to start on a note other than "swords, wee", but detailing the entire thing didn't seem like a winning idea, so nah.

    I actually just finished a new version that has more exposition, better character voice, and downplays the actiony bits, I think, so I'm pleased.
     
  8. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributor Contributor

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    I think I would expect more fights. Though not because you open on a fight. Rather because your MC here is a fighter or swordsman.

    And that sort of implies that there is gonna be more fighting. But that doesn't mean I'd expect or even want fighting every five minutes.

    Even in a movie too much fighting is boring. And the visual style gives it all the more favors than a book.

    The detail I think is way more important than how many fights you have is how meaningful those fights are. Or how awesome they are.

    Which as others have said. Probably not the best to open on the most intense scene. Though opening on a fight with no context might be a bad idea too. My question is: Can you rewind the plot like the previous day or hour so we get a bit of the character before they are in a fight?

    But wait. You said you open in Media Res. Does that mean you can't open a bit earlier?Because opening a bit before the fight would probably make it a lot easier to give us some of the character before bamn an whack!
     
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  9. izzybot

    izzybot (unspecified) Contributor

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    Hmm. I mean, there are more fights, but they don't all get the same amount of focus as the opening one. One happens 'offscreen' because it happens while we're in the other mc's pov, and they're not a fighter, and there are a couple scenes that're basically the mcs avoiding actual fights on top of the other one-and-a-fuzz proper fights.

    I'd say there's still action, just not that many fight scenes per se. Would that probably fit the expectations or nah?

    Yeah, since I don't want to do the entire fight and starting much earlier (like a previous day) would just mean finding stuff for this mc to do before he meets up with the second one, I'm not super into that. Thought about it, but I don't think it's the way to go. Thanks, though!
     
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  10. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributor Contributor

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    What you got so for sounds fine to me
    At least in concept. It is one of those details that to be really sure. You have to see. Ya know?

    But nothing sounds bad about it currently.
     
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  11. izzybot

    izzybot (unspecified) Contributor

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    For sure, it's a difficult thing to judge without actually seeing the text itself. I have another 17k words to redo and then I'll have to track down some more betas for that, hahah.
     
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  12. GuardianWynn

    GuardianWynn Contributor Contributor

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    Sounds good!

    If ya want to PM me about a bit of the context(back of the book type stuff) I might be interested in being a beta.

    I have to admit I am not the strongest reader. But I am eager to fix that and am willing to give ya the power of my critical thinking (which what I lack in reading skills I make up for in critical thinking and plot anaylis!)
     
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  13. Mr. white Tiger

    Mr. white Tiger New Member

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    Well, for me though I am not a very good analyst but I love fantasy stories. In this case, your intro got me confused as I could not make out the reason why the characters were fighting.
    And I agreed with Jannert…for opening matters a lot if you will want to get readers interested and keep them going on.

    It is a good thought coming from you thinking something like that…I could picture Mc with his sword.
    And regarding your question, I will expect more fight with reasons because any battle involving creatures just don’t end in few fights. Take for example…The Hobbit.
     
  14. Lew

    Lew Contributor Contributor

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    I think it is very hard to write a good opening for a book you haven't written yet. Unless you are a detailed planner, you don't know much about your characters, or what is really going to become important to the story. I think the purpose of the Chapter 1 first draft is to focus your own mind, as the writer, on some aspect of the story and get started. When you go back to edit Chapter 1, you may throw it out entirely (I did mine) because the person you thought was mc didn't emerge as such, or there was some back story that emerged in the story that will make a much better opening. So don't stress, work on how to hook the reader in on the first edit/revision, when you have a much better grasp of the finished story.
     
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  15. ChickenFreak

    ChickenFreak Contributor Contributor

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    I agree. The opening of the Highly Flavored Novel is primarily there for me--I'm assuming that if it survives to later drafts, it will be changed. I'm rather attached to the specific events, but there are too many paragraphs--paragraphs that serve to put me into a setting, based on my own cues for that setting-- before there's anything at stake.
     
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  16. jannert

    jannert Retired Mod Supporter Contributor

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    I hate writing beginnings! I'm SO bad at it.

    The trouble is, of course, in real life nothing starts in a vaccuum. I mean, you're in a life-changing car crash—all very exciting, and things will change from then on, big-time. But why were you in that car? Were you driving too fast? If so, why? And if you weren't driving, who was? Were they driving too fast? If so, why? Was there a good reason for the speed, or were they just arsing around, or trying to scare you, or feeling invincible, or on drugs? How do you feel about that person now? And if we're to get a grip on them, or on 'you,' then the reason for driving too fast needs to be looked at. Which leads back to what life is like at home/work/love-life of these characters prior to the crash, which would explain their fast driving. And what caused home/work/love to take the turn it did ...and etc.

    To say 'start the story at the moment of change—or start where the story begins' sounds wonderful, but it's really hard to do. At least for me. Because there are always 'reasons.' Characters, like real people, aren't blank ...even at the moment of birth, they have characteristics and circumstances that influence what they do. Aaack. So where does a story REALLY begin? A moment of 'truth' followed by flashbacks and or pithy hints at backstory? Or should an author start the story much further back?

    I hate HATE making these kinds of decisions.

    Personally, I'm fine with a slow-starting story. The kind Victorians wrote, that set the scene and gave the characters lots of narrative background before things started to change. As long as there is a hint as to what a change might mean I'm fine with lots of backstory, provided it's written in a lively and evocative way. But it seems that approach is no longer fashionable. And I can't get to grips with starting a story in a more immediate way. It just doesn't come naturally to me at all. I'm a big believer in starting a story with "Once upon a time."
     
    Last edited: Aug 8, 2017

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