1. Leigh Silvester
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    Leigh Silvester Member

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    who is the cleverest person here?

    Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by Leigh Silvester, Dec 8, 2013.

    A little IT trivia question that usually stumps the smartest of the students I come across.

    I usually lead into it with an admiration of the amount of IT exposure they have grown up with and their knowledge of computers etc.

    The question is, on your keyboard there is a key to the left of the "1" key with a symbol that looks like a back-to-front and on its side "L".
    What is it called and how would you use it?


    They never have a chance to do an interweby search thing for it.
     
  2. minstrel
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    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Staff Supporter Contributor

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    There's no such key on my keyboard.

    Why are you asking?
     
  3. Pheonix
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    Pheonix A Singer of Space Operas and The Fourth Mod of RP Staff Contributor

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    Are you talking about the ~?

    I know it as a Tilde. I don't however know what the proper usage of it is grammatically, or why it's even really there...

    EDIT: Other than as an accent mark in spanish, or as a fancy dash...
     
  4. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    It's a logical negation symbol, but so obscure that few keyboards still have it.
     
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  5. Pheonix
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    Pheonix A Singer of Space Operas and The Fourth Mod of RP Staff Contributor

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    So not the Tilde then? Would this be something I'd have to go digging for an ancient keyboard to find?
     
  6. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    Yes, I remember seeing it on older keyboards, but none of the keyboards I have now have that symbol. Only reason I recognize the symbol is my math background.
     
  7. minstrel
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    minstrel Leader of the Insquirrelgency Staff Supporter Contributor

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    Do you mean a gamma symbol? I don't remember ever seeing that on a computer keyboard, and I'm old!
     
  8. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    It's not a gamma. Here - I found an image:

    [​IMG]
     
  9. mammamaia
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    mammamaia nit-picker-in-chief Contributor

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    never saw it on any keyboard i've ever used in the past 30 years... and i started with an 'epsom' back in '83... went from that to an 'apple' [pre-mac] and on up the mac ladder till i switched to pcs and dell laptops...
     
  10. Wreybies
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    Wreybies The Ops Pops Operations Manager Staff Contest Administrator Supporter Contributor

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    But it does have an internet use! :) It makes the 'suspicious' emoticon (¬.¬)

    ...or perhaps it's the 'not impressed' emoti.... not sure.
     
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  11. A.M.P.
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    A.M.P. People Buy My Books for the Bio Photo Supporter Contributor

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    I would've guessed the tilde key as well.
    Closest thing I ever saw on a keyboard to that symbol.
    I guess it wasn't a popular key enough to be included in my first PC in 2002.
     
  12. cazann34
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    cazann34 Active Member

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    He mean this:¬ but sadly I have no idea what it means or what it is for.
    EDIT: Is it something to do with programming?
     
  13. Robert_S
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    Robert_S Contributing Member

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    Those symbols are on an IBM mainframe computer keyboard, but not mainstream home computer keyboards. What home computer KBs have is a tilde and I don't know the proper name for the reverse quote symbol.

    I worked in IT operations for 13 years straight and off and on before that as a tape hanger.

    A bit of googling turned up that it is the not symbol, but I don't know if it's the logical not or bitwise not. Since it is in place of the tilde, I'll assume it's the bitwise not from olden days of cobol and JCL and whatever preceded those languages. It's been replaced with the ~ for bitwise not (at least in C/++ and a few other languages).
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
  14. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    ` is accent grave
     
  15. Robert_S
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    Robert_S Contributing Member

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    Ok, thanks. I don't recall the last time I've ever had an occasion or need to use it.
     
  16. Thomas Kitchen
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    Thomas Kitchen Proofreader in the Making Contributor

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    So how come I have one? ¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬¬
     
  17. Robert_S
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    Robert_S Contributing Member

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    You have it on your keyboard or you can alt+NNN the symbol into existence? If it's on your keyboard, what country are you residing in and how old is your keyboard?

    I use a genuine IBM model M and I don't have it and I think you'll find most if not all keyboards today won't have it.
     
  18. Thomas Kitchen
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    Thomas Kitchen Proofreader in the Making Contributor

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    It's a Logitech K520, or at least that's what it says at the back. No idea how old it is in terms of when the first was made, but I acquired this particular keyboard only a couple of months ago, brand new from a custom PC-building website. It's definitely a key. I'm from the UK.
     
  19. Robert_S
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    Robert_S Contributing Member

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    Do all UK KBs have that key? I've never seen a KB outside of the mainframe world having that symbol on it. As I said, it's a bitwise not and that symbol has long since been replaced by the '~'.

    Gonna google your kb.

    You may have a very unique keyboard. Most of the 520s I've seen had the tilde, but one that was allegedly UK had a very different layout for symbols. The key left of the '1' had hash mark, forward (or was it the reverse) slash and pipe, but still no old time not.
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2013
  20. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    The ¬ is the key for the "cup is half empty" people out there.
     
  21. Leigh Silvester
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    Leigh Silvester Member

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    Cogito has it - the Logical Not symbol : ¬.
    So a mathematical statement might include the phrase ¬P, which would be vocalised as "not P".

    Possibly it is a UK keyboard thing. I haven't noticed a keyboard without it.

    Google knowledge: It is a hangover from the EBCDIC system which was the forerunner of ASCII.
     
  22. plothog
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    plothog Contributing Member Supporter Contributor

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    ¬¬¬¬¬

    I'm in the UK. There's three different makes of keyboard here in our family computer room and all of them have ¬.

    So yes, seems it's standard in the UK.
     
  23. cazann34
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    cazann34 Active Member

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    I'm from the UK and I have the "¬" symbol. I have a Toshiba L300 laptop if that's any good for the categorizing of keyboard types.
     

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