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  1. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh
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    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

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    Why are people still anti-vaxx?

    Discussion in 'Debate Room' started by Duchess-Yukine-Suoh, Jul 26, 2014.

    The latest argument against vaccinations: "Children who have vaccinations are 85% more likely to use heroin than children who don't." Um.....what? What kind of fact is this? I get how you could skew data, but people really believe this. They also believe vaccinations cause autism despite research it doesn't.

    And this isn't just a few nut jobs. The US has had the worst whooping cough epidemic in 70 years from people not vaccinating their kids. Not even in the Bible Belt. It was in the northwest.

    Why is this happening? How do people fall for this?
     
  2. chicagoliz
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    chicagoliz Contributing Member Contributor

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    Because people are nuts. They also don't have any memory of living in fear of many of these diseases, which was the case in the first part of the last century.

    People like being part of a cause, and a lot of people like being part of some kind of contrarian group. Add this together with people who are paranoid, who enjoy conspiracy theories, and like to fancy themselves as smart as any expert, and you've got a big enough group of people to cause some real harm.
     
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  3. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    A little investigating turned this up:

    PSA: The “Vaccinations Lead To Heroin Use” Graphic Is A Parody

    https://www.flickr.com/photos/e_monk/5831180626/in/set-72157615050179023/


    Having given thousands of injections to kids, I can assure you they rarely if ever regard it as something positive.
     
  4. ChickenFreak
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    ChickenFreak Contributing Member Contributor

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    Yep. I think that most people believe that the biggest risk from most infectious diseases is the risk of paying a doctor's bill for a shot of antibiotics. They haven't absorbed the idea that you can actually die from these things, because most people don't know anyone who has.

    So when they're looking at the risk of something that they know doesn't have a quick cure, like autism, compared to the risk of something that they erroneously believe has a guaranteed quick cure, they go with the second one.
     
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  5. Garball
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    Garball Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand. Supporter Contributor

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    I haven't vaccinated any of my children for anything yet.
     
  6. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh
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    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

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    Most of the vaccinations are supposed to be given in the first year.....
     
  7. jazzabel
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    jazzabel Contributing Member Contributor

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    Literally billions of people believe a bearded man in the sky created the Universe in six days, then made a man from dust, six thousand years ago, all without a single shred of actual evidence of any of these 'events'. In fact, they believe it despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary. Anti-vaxxers are the same, like a religion, there needs to be no sense to it, except the way believing it makes them feel. It's an issue of faith.

    However, in my opinion, there should be hefty fines for refusing to vaccinate or at least a mandatory exclusion of unvaccinated children from schools and areas where there might be babies and children who haven't yet had a chance to be vaccinated and are therefore susceptible to illnesses that could kill them. It's the issue of 'herd immunity'. Otherwise, things can (and sadly do) get deadly. Babies have died because of unvaccinated older children, and their anti-vacc parents, from what I remember, were utterly unapologetic.
     
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  8. ChickenFreak
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    ChickenFreak Contributing Member Contributor

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    Maybe part of the solution is something like those advertisements with facts about smoking. As in "Measles can cause measles encephalitis, brain damage, death..."

    And comparisons of side effects: "The risk of death from measles is 2.6 bazillion times the risk of death from the measles vaccine..." The problem with that, of course, is the conspiracy-theory idea that the vaccination is causing harm that's being covered up.

    Also, I did just read a news story that in the United States it can be hard for parents, especially low-income parents, to get their kids vaccinated. Apparently in many cases, the vaccines--just the vaccines themselves--cost doctors more than they are paid by insurance companies for the vaccination. Edited to add: So not all doctors offer them, and the ones that do don't always offer them to people who aren't regular patients.

    Edited to add: I realize that the above won't convince those who are determined to believe the conspiracy theories. But for those who aren't, lots of exposure of the facts and statistics might help?
     
  9. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Because you don't have any kids?

    Or because the nurses gave the vaccinations to them?
     
  10. Garball
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    Garball Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand. Supporter Contributor

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    Dammit! I almost had the Duchess with that one.

    Kidding aside, I have had all of my current children vaccinated against parvo, distemper, and rabies.
     
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  11. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh
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    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

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    I was actually concerned for a moment there.

    At first, I was gonna be all "that's good, but what about rubella and whatnot?" And then I realized they were dogs! :D
     
  12. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    In short: because they are fucking idiots.

    That's it, that's the only real reason.
     
  13. Garball
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    Garball Sometimes nothing can be a real cool hand. Supporter Contributor

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    I don't think having sex with stupid people makes you stupid.
     
  14. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    It does. Trust me, I'm a doctor.

    I'm not a doctor. I don't know what I'm talking about.
     
  15. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    Same reason why some people pray rather than take their sick kid to the doctor. They're stupid. They would much rather tempt fate than to endure the few unpleasant seconds of the needle to ensure their kids don't die of something that can be easily preventable now. This is 2014, not 1914 for Heaven's sake!

    Hell, I don't have kids, but I can assure you that whatever living creature I wind up caring for-be it human, feline, or canine-it's going to get vaccinated up. It's called being a responsible caretaker.
     
  16. chicagoliz
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    chicagoliz Contributing Member Contributor

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    This is a great article, although everyone in this thread essentially already agrees.
    http://m.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/measles-cases-are-spreading-despite-high-vaccination-rates-whats-going-on/2014/06/23/38c86884-ea97-11e3-93d2-edd4be1f5d9e_story.html

    Another thing the anti-vax crowd is always touting is how harmful/poisonous the vaccines are. I know lots of people in big pharma, particularly within the vaccine divisions. They would be in the very best position to know if there was some sort of "cover up" or if there were dangers that weren't being presented to the public, etc. Yet, every child of every person there is fully vaccinated.
     
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  17. Cogito
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    Cogito Former Mod, Retired Supporter Contributor

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    One reason is because a widely reported scientific study linked autism with vaccinations. Even though the study was proven fraudulent, and the doctor at the head of the story stripped of his license to practice medicine, much of the public is more incline to believe a lurid headline story than any retraction or the many, many studies that the few risks of vccinations are far outweighed by their benefits.
     
  18. We Are Cartographers
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  19. Lemex
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    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    I always do like it when you post. :) You are right, I take what I said back.
     
  20. Link the Writer
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    Link the Writer Flipping Out For A Good Story. Contributor

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    I can see your point. People are terrified about things they have no understanding of, and have no control over. Sometimes things just happen, and for some who are religious, it can be frightening why He would just allow this to happen so they'll find anything, anything to explain it. Anything to feel secured, and I don't blame them. The word is a scary-as-hell place, and people want to have security.

    I suppose it's easy for us to look from the sidelines and call them idiots, because we're not in the throes of it. We're not having to sit there and watch a horrible thing happen to our loved ones without our control, and whom we have no one to blame for our loved one's suffering. To them, it makes sense to not give their kid a vaccine if they feel it will help avert an illness down the line. To them, the unseen threat is very real and here is this one thing they have, the one thing they can use and control to combat this unseen threat.
     
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  21. chicagoliz
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    chicagoliz Contributing Member Contributor

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    I don't agree. For some of them, it really is because they are stupid.
     
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  22. chicagoliz
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    chicagoliz Contributing Member Contributor

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    The only problem with this is that the 'unseen threat' is MUCH more likely to be the vaccine-preventable disease.
     
  23. chicagoliz
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    chicagoliz Contributing Member Contributor

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    The religion explanation doesn't really fit on this issue. The anti-vax crowd is a really odd combination of very far left and very far right. Some are religious nuts who believe in nothing but prayer and God's will. Others are not religious at all, but believe somehow that vaccines are "unnatural." The entire spectrum of religious devotion is present in the anti-vaccine movement.
     
  24. We Are Cartographers
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  25. GingerCoffee
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    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    We all filter the knowledge we encounter in our lives, assigning more and less credibility to different evidences. When you assign low credibility to anything you identify as evidence generated by 'Big-Pharma' it leaves one open then to assign high credibility to evidence including pseudo-evidence which contradicts Big-Pharma evidence.

    Many anti-vaxxers are unaware that all the vaccine research is not funded by Big-Pharma or by agents of Big-Pharma, and all public health agents/health care providers are not duped or in on the take.

    Is it stupidity that makes one reject legitimate evidence and accept pseudo-evidence? Sometimes it is purely out of ignorance. That varies as well depending on how you define intelligence. Sometimes it's indoctrination, such as religious groups that shun vaccines. Sometimes it's belief in conspiracy theories and other bizarre versions of reality. There are places in the world where people are convinced polio vaccine is a plot to make Muslim women sterile. Is that stupidity?
     
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