1. TheApprentice
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    TheApprentice Contributing Member

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    Why can't vampires use magic?

    Discussion in 'Plot Development' started by TheApprentice, Aug 5, 2015.

    So while I was thinking about my story plot I came to question it.

    The main idea in the story is a conflict involving mages, vampires, and a religious group we will just call them The Order.

    My idea is that anyone in my verse can learn magic, but it requires access to a certain part of the brain. Most people need to go through a lot of meditation and study to become effective mages, others are born with a certain ability that they identify as some kind of "magic" at some point and look into it further, finding the hidden mage communities. Practitioners of magic are "mages."

    The Order is a group of pure humans. A few use magic, but decide its a "gift from god" or that they were meant to discover it in order to combat the supernatural horrors of the world.

    So the Mages have no problem doing magic, and the Order could do magic but most of them won't for religious purposes.

    Then there are the Vampires. Vampires, along with Demons and Werefolk (in their were form. For example, a werewolf while in wolf form) cannot perform magic. I am trying to think of a reason why that the reader will find acceptable.

    I wan't to avoid a reason that is too simple. For example, saying simply that mages are mages and vampires are vampires and leaving no reason as to why no vampire ever attempts magic.

    I thought of the idea that vampires are too focused on their thirst for blood that they cannot achieve a certain mental clarity necessary to learn magic. Now this wont work because my main character is obsessed with bedding as many women as possible, trying every strain of marijuana, and his own ego but is still a mage.

    There was also an idea that crossed my mind about a certain internal energy humans have which goes away when they are corrupted (for example, turned into a vampire or while in a were form).

    So this is something I am having trouble with. Can you help me out?
     
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  2. Hamish246
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    Hamish246 New Member

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    If it is a world of magic you could say the organs or part of the brain that control it get destroyed or disabled when one gets turned into a vampire or werewolf. Which leaves the possibility of a cure as well.

    Demons not being able to use magic stumps me. Demons in general are very magic heavy aren't they? That one could be trickier to explain to the reader. Maybe a curse from 'God' to fit in with the religious cult aspect.
     
  3. Aaron DC
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    Aaron DC Contributing Member

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    DO vampires have souls? In Buffy they don't. Could you tie magic to souls?
     
  4. TheApprentice
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    TheApprentice Contributing Member

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    Well Demons have certain abilities, but they already have those abilities, they do not earn them through study and/or practice. If a demon does something like that, its no really magic. Also, they can't really improve their skill. A mage, with enough study, experience, and skill (but I mean a LOT of each) can outdo most demons without issue. For a human its magic, for a demon its only normal.

    But the brain damage idea might work.
     
  5. TheApprentice
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    TheApprentice Contributing Member

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    Hmm. Everything has a soul. The demons and dead gods don't because the ARE souls themselves.
    In becoming a vampire, the soul is not altered. The story is dark. The characters are all selfish in some way, thirsting to fulfill their self interest like a vampire thirsts for blood, willing to sacrifice the well being of others to get what they want like a vampire will hurt people to fulfill its dark hunger. Therefore, the souls are the same.
     
  6. Sifunkle
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    Sifunkle Dis Member

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    You say that mages have to do a lot of meditation etc... How about some new-agey thing where that meditation allows them to perfectly understand their "self essence" (maybe you can build this into the 'soul' stuff you're already working with) and channel magic through it.

    As vampires have to feed on blood from others, maybe they're diluting/contaminating their own essence with others' essence. No matter how much they meditate, they can never understand their own essence well enough to channel magic, because it changes with every meal.

    Of course, this raises questions about precisely what that essence is (presumably it's linked to blood), who has it, why mages aren't contaminating theirs with cow essence when they eat a hamburger, whether a vampire could ever be a skilled enough meditator to work with a changing essence... But hey, it's your fantasy; you make the rules. This is just the fantastical logic that immediately occurs to me :)
     
  7. Song
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    Song Active Member

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    You could tie magic to the blood. When people become vampires they lose that element from their blood which generates magic. This is why they need to feed on blood to regain it. Although with this thinking I would also expect
    1- Vampires would like to feed from powerful magicians more due to the higher presence of this element.
    2- The essence within blood that gives people the magic would also tie to a vampire's strength, speed and whatever abilities you give them. The more powerful the victim, the more powerful the vampire (but it would be time limited as they constantly lose that element or essence)
    3 - They would be able to sense someone with a high level of the essence within their blood.

    Just an idea.
     
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  8. GuardianWynn
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    GuardianWynn Contributing Member Contributor

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    Well. For one. You get a like for using the words "The" and "Order" in the same sentence. :D.

    Well. Do you know how magic works? That might be a much better questions. You said what it takes to learn magic but you didn't mention why that lets people use magic.

    Like for a comparison. In my world people use the energy of there soul to connect with things and manipulate those things. So some people need to study for a long time to "Learn to connect" while others do it much more naturally. Also another character has a magical disease that isn't letting there magic leave them. Meaning they can't cast magic because they can't connect.

    The trick here is even if Vampires and Werewolves are stated as lacking mental control. They also tend to live longer. Right? If so it begs the question why didn't they learn magic. Or why doesn't a rogue one know magic. If you have gods. A classic reason is to say magic is gods blessing. Which impure creatures simply don't receive.

    I personally don't like that concept but food for thought. THe major issue still being why does magic work in your world.
     
  9. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    If magic comes from the soul, vampires are dead and without a soul.
     
  10. Daemon Wolf
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    Daemon Wolf Active Member

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    I would suggest basing it on something the humans have that werewolves and vampires don't. Because in most cases (story wise) people who become vampires are drastically changed (Like the worms from The Strain) as well as the people who become werewolves (Like from Bitten) change drastically when becoming wolves/werewolves.
     
  11. Aaron DC
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  12. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Duplicate post.
     
  13. Lewdog
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    Lewdog Come ova here and give me kisses! Supporter Contributor

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    Duplicate post.
     
  14. TheApprentice
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    TheApprentice Contributing Member

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  15. Aaron DC
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  16. Lewdog
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    Holy cow it would take me days to read through all that! I'd prefer just to agree with what I said and call it a day. It's best for the both of us.
     
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  17. TheApprentice
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    TheApprentice Contributing Member

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  18. Aaron DC
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    Does the soul play any sort of role anywhere else in the novel?
     
  19. TheApprentice
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    TheApprentice Contributing Member

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    Epic trolling, brah
     
  20. Revilo87
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    Vampires being unable to perform magic is fairly common, with the usual reason being that since they are dead/undead, they're unable to connect to the spiritual/living force of magic.

    The real reason for them not to be able to perform magic probably entails not wanting to overkill the vamps by giving them unlimited power.

    Vampires typically already have;

    Immortality,
    Super-healing,
    Super-strength,
    Super-speed,
    Glammoring/Persuasion/Memory Modification, etc.
    Many vampire in various stories also include the ability to fly either as themselves or by transforming to bats, etc.

    So you have to ask yourself if you think vampires really need magic on top of all that? If you think they do, what will be their limits? Can they use magic to make themselves able to walk out in the sun? To enter a home uninvited? To not crave blood? Also how can a human and/or non vamp ever have a hope at defeating a vampire in this universe when vampires can out perform everyone else?

    However giving some or all of your vamps extra abilities wouldn't be unprecedented. Vampire characters from Buffy to Twilight have some sort of extra ability such as telepathy or foresight. In Twilight humans who already had abilities (known or unknown) saw those abilities brought out and accentuated once they transformed
     
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2015
  21. Daemon Wolf
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    Daemon Wolf Active Member

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    Ewww, Twilight
     
  22. TheApprentice
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    TheApprentice Contributing Member

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    Don't worry. There is no sparkling in my verse.
    I am in fact considering having the vampires melt if glitter touches their skin.
     
  23. Selbbin
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    Selbbin I hate you Contributor

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    Those glitter gun weapons would be awesome. Death by glitter fairy dust!
     
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  24. Daemon Wolf
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    Anything with glitter and vampires hurts me deeply....
     
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  25. Jack13star
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    I think that explaining to the reader how a werewolf cant use magic unless in human form makes total sense, without having to explain much. Do your vampires have something that make them special, mind control, speed, strength? Or is their power simply because they cannot die? Their own skills could be considered power enough, or something they gave up when they became one of the undead. Live forever, but here is the price... no magic.
    Werewolves at least get to be human some of the time, Vampires are 'monsters' forever, and in most instances have to hide from the world. You could use the point that there is no heartbeat in a vampires chest and somehow magic works with the beat and chemistry of a human body, possibly the heart is too fast to when the werewolf is in wolf mode to have that magical harmony?
    Am I ranting now? Yeah, that happens.
     

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