Why Did You Waste That On Fanfiction?

Just go with fanfiction. The best of us hone our talents in a safer bubble than those who cast their originality out. I point out someone who was prolific in the entire time I was dormant as worse, without knowing the break-to-originality that might have actually been better than all of us.

Yes, I grammer-broke with going past-tense verbs into nouns.

 

I did just figure out the value of fanfiction... Does anyone else know how bad Marvel used to be at making movies? Heck, the stories they were working with at the time probably didn't have the original authors on board anymore anyway.

A fanfiction author can take someone else's idea and run with it. Ann McCaffrey is probably more expecting death than burnout with turning the reins over to Todd, but other authors could probably choose a fanfiction writer to read their notes and keep the universe alive.

 

Again, I'm not sure about the definition of fanfiction here. When Neil Gaiman reinvented The Sandman for DC, would you count that as fanfiction?

 

Well, the fanfiction part is where they are practicing and proving that they can do it. Heck, the same story may be un-uploaded fanfiction until it gets sold to a publishing house where it becomes licensed tie-in.

 

Yeah, fan fiction is where you're committing copyright violations... it's no longer fan-fiction when a professional is licensing IP instead of just trying to be a writer by stealing from writers.

I'll mention I have no problem with people writing whatever they want privately. It's when entire sites and writers' personae are created by ripping off other writers. If you want to write your own version of Harry Potter just to practice, then do it without uploading it online and trying to build your own image and presences by stealing from others. I mean, I'll practice by copying out other writers in word or re-writing scenes from famous movies as fiction, but I'm not uploading it online and pretending I'm building a fan-base and am a real writer because of it.

If an IP's copyright has lapsed and it's public domain, then I don't personally care (nor professionally), eat your heart out. There's a reason why fan fic isn't allowed on most reputable writing review/critique sites, and why you'd be busted for turning in a fan fiction story in school.

 

Who I am to force your round peg into my square hole ? If you like writing fan-fic, I love it. Solider on.

By the time you reach the age of the self appointed experts, your skills will have been honed by writing the dreck, practice makes perfect, not every word any of us pen is a potential pultizer winner, please have fun, do not let anyone extinguish your passion

Understand much of the bashing of 'writer on writer' crime is a not so subtle form of self promotion

Aerosmith's covering Tiny Bradshaw's big band classic "train kept a rollin" did not prohibit Steven Tyler from writng Dream On, or Sweet Emotion shortly there after,

 

I wouldn't call fan fiction a wasted or pointless exercise. I think if you take writing for what it is ie. a piece of your imagination splurged on paper, then fan fiction is just another form of the craft. You absorb preconceived ideas and characters, lace them with your own imagination and splurge the product on paper. It's still your own imagination being stimulated. But this time it's inspired by the works of others, and let's be honest who hasn't been stirred by a brilliant piece of fiction and not wished that they could have written something like this. Some writers will embrace this inspiration completely, being so moved by the work that they themselves would like to adopt it for their creativity. And a piece of fan fiction is born.

It's only if you see every passage of writing as a ticket to a paid publishing credit, that you might shy away from fan fiction. But the truth is 99% of what people write will never be purchased by a publisher, so if you feel so inspired to write the eighth Harry Potter novel, don't stifle the desire.

Write what moves you. No boundaries.

 

Interesting article by Neil Gaiman at http://www.telegraph.co.uk/culture/tvandradio/doctor-who/8512757/Neil-Gaiman-I-did-cool-evil-things-to-Doctor-Who.html

His case seems to be as I suggested fanfic would be. Potentially useful writing practice, but not how he actually got noticed (I'm don't think there's any Gaiman fanfic out there, is there? I want to read it if there is!)

 

My problem with fan ficiton isin other words: IMO)

1. It is my Interpretation of someone elses characters. I have no knowlege of the secret background.

2. It is using someone elses work.

3. I would not dare compare myself to the original artist, so my work would belittle their work that I love. I am not setting them above me, just that the work that I love could not be made better by me. It would be at best a facsimile.

4. I don't like working with someone else's limitations, set in their work. The other person has reasoned out their limitations and I would probably not understand without discussing it with them.

I love "How to train your dragon", I have seen some good stories, but when I really looked at it, the image of the MC's was there, but the characters were pretending to be the real ones. The characters are different because the person seeing/understanding the characters are different.

Practice with fanfic, but then go create your work that your favorite author would envy.

 

What makes your interpretation more or less valid than anyone else's? I hate a fanfic that rapes canon as much as the next person. On the other hand, these characters, worlds and stories are fictional. Any writing about them is equally valid.

No, really?

And I do not raise someone onto a pedestal just because I enjoy their work. Take Alan Moore, for example. Just because Watchmen was a great piece of literature, it is not flawless. Nothing is. And you are not belittling them in any way. Imitation is the sincerest forms of flattery.

"Restriction breeds creativity."

- Mark Rosewater

I apologise, but this statement is highly ignorant of you, as is the rest of your post. One of, if not my single favourite author, is H.P. Lovecraft. Lovecraft himself encouraged others to use his Mythos as the foundation for their own works, because it was enjoyable for him to know that someone thought his world was good enough to be the setting for their own work. You act as if good writers should not write fanfiction and you seem to assume that fanfiction writers cannot be skilled enough to create a world that is at least as compelling as the one created by the original author. This is wrong. Get off your high horse, please.

 

I do not agree. Taking the characters and stories of another author and using them for fanfic is rarely of equal validity, which is why most readers don't care about fanfic. If a fanfic story about Hermione and Ron had equal validity to what Rowling wrote about them, you'd see a lot more interested in reading finding the fanfics online and reading them.

Fact is, most fanfic is written by amateurs who do not have the ability to create compelling characters and worlds of their own. Once they develop that ability (if they ever do) they generally leave fanfic behind and pursue their own creations.

Using a shared mythos, such as Lovecraft, Howard, Derleth and others did on occasion isn't fanfic, in my view. If Lovecraft had tried to publish a story about a lovechild between Conan and Agnes de Chastillon, he might be writing fanfic at that point.

Fanfic is generally of poor quality and little more than an exercise in writing without doing the work of creating. There are always exceptions, but those are quite rare, which is why fanfic is looked down upon.

 

In the same vein of arguing, I could postulate that because more people are currently interested in reading Twilight than The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, Twilight must be the superior work. We both know that is not true. The reason why people do not pursue fanfiction is most likely because of Sturgeon's Law. If you do not know it, it says that 90 % of everything is crap, but the remaining 10 % are worth dying for.

Now, when looking on the Internet, there is no kind of quality filter to keep the 90 % from filling up most of the stuff you can find. On the other hand, an author has to go through a whole bunch of it before he/she can become published. And even then, there are lots of brilliant authors who never get published, for differing reasons. With books, you can generally look over professional reviewers' opinions to see what is good. With fanfiction, you have the same kind of people that write the crap comment on the crap. Of course they will like it.

Trust me, if there was some kind of quality filter on fanfiction, I think we would see a lot more people seeking it out. But for now... Well, people are lazy and generally don't want to waste time on reading unless they are fairly certain that they aren't, well, wasting their time. Why do you think publishers much prefer established authors over new ones?

I do both.

Let me explain. I generally write about worlds, characters and stories of my own creation. However, when I encounter a work that I enjoy, I will sometimes come up with an idea for expanding on that universe and just roll with it. This is purely for my own enjoyment, though I do put it up somewhere on the Internet when I'm done. However, as you already mentioned, few people actually read it, so it is really just for my own enjoyment. I never encroach on the canon because I feel that I want to pay tribute to the original work, not change it. It is not something I often do, but I think it is a fun exercise and a nice way to spend some creative energy. Could I have made most of these works into a self-contained story? Absolutely. But I want to pay tribute to the original work for my own amusement. Nothing more, nothing less.

So if you set a story in the Harry Potter world, but make it about a group of Southern American wizards that are never in contact with the original cast aside from maybe a mention, it is not fanfiction? Where do you draw the line, exactly?

 

There are tons of writing exercises I do, some using other people's work, that I wouldn't dare dream of posting online trying to make friends or build my reputation. So, why is it okay when people do this with fan fiction? Because there are so many others willing to support it? Does that mean I should be allowed to steal and sell a photographers prints, just because there's a market for it? I mean, I've re-written scenes from famous movies as fiction to help with timing and pace (among other things), but I would never be so arrogant and brash as to post it online looking for validation or credit for what is just a writing exercise.

Fan fiction is only really valid as anything but a writing exercise that shouldn't be shared online as if it's your own when there's a specific contest calling for fan-fiction type of works. Then, it's not really fan fiction so much as simply writing to the expectations of a contest, as the 'fan' in fan fiction implies an amateur endeavor, while writing for a contest using existing IP (as directed and requested, assuming by those who own or license the IP) is a professional endeavor.

 

Is that why you write in the first place? To get validation and credit for your work? If it is, I would like to point out that not everyone is like you. If it is not, why would you automatically assume that others do it for these reason?

Magic: The Gathering is the original trading card game. In its 18 year-old history, it has managed to build quite a reservoir of official lore. I am part of a forum where we discuss the lore, the books, etcetera. And sometimes, someone throws a writing contest when a new game expansion has come out or something like that. Works of surprisingly high quality actually get submitted, and I sometimes chime in for my own amusement. Is it wrong of me to do this? Is it wrong of me to say "Hey, you did something really cool here. I actually like it so much that I'm gonna try and write something that pays tribute to your world and characters"?

I find this whole obsession with originality rather childish and pretentious, to be honest. Nothing in this world is truly original, everything copies from something else. At least fanfiction is honest about its inspiration.

Professionality is defined as someone who gets paid for what he or she does. I do not get paid for entering a contest with my work. I am honest about it when I write a fan work, and I share it online, not to get validated, but because I actually think that people enjoy my writing. Or so I have been told time and time again. Call it arrogance if you will, but that is the honest truth - I think I am a good enough writer that another fan of the show can stumble across my work and find it enjoyable. And I do this for free, so I really fail to see the reasons for your complaints.

 

As I pointed out, there are plenty of people who have a variety of writing exercises they don't then go posting on websites entirely devoted to stealing other writers' IP. If someone just writes fan fiction for their own personal love or as a writing exercise, then they wouldn't post it online for friends and strangers alike to not only see, but also comment on, rate, etc.

The fact is, by evidence by the fan fiction sites brimming with posts and people begging for feedback and validation, there are a tons of people seeking validation and to make friends/fans through their fan fiction. This isn't an assumption, so much as an observation.

If the OWNERS of the Magic: The Gathering IP want to throw a contest, that's within their rights, and ONLY within their rights.

Surprisingly high quality doesn't excuse copyright infringement or IP theft, so I don't know why people keep defensively bringing this up, especially when the quality is beside the point (outside of people seeming awkwardly defensive about it). Plenty of my exercises re-writing scenes from movies are high quality, but I wouldn't go posting it online or submitting it to a journal as if it was purely my own.

This made me LOL, seriously. So, if you wrote a story, and then someone else came along and made a movie out of it, didn't credit you, cut you out of the profits, you'd have no problem with it, as they were being the opposite of childish and pretentious! And then if the laughed in your face, admitting they stole your work, you'd simply congratulate them for being honest!

I have a feeling you're just exaggerating to make a point, and you don't honestly believe the 'obsession' with a writer, /gasp, coming up with original CHARACTERS and SETTINGS is childish and pretentious.

You've just boggled my fragile little mind. So you don't post the work you've stolen characters, settings, plots, etc from other writers to get validation, just because people read it and tell you time and time again that they enjoy it. Is this not............ (wait for it)............. at all validating? So, you aren't doing it for the validation, but out of a duty to the fans you've created by stealing the IP of other writers? I see, I see.

 

Some people don't have any regard for IP or creative ownership. Actually, a lot of people don't, but it is always strange to see it crop up on writer's sites or other sites frequented by creative people.

 

I think you are correct that this applies to a lot of people. I can only speak from my own, personal experience when saying that this not the case for myself. When I post it online, I leave it there for people to enjoy. Sure, being told that someone enjoyed it is as nice as with any other kind of writing. But even if I were the only reader of my work, it would not matter to me. However, I know that others enjoy what I write and, as such, I put it online. Whether they want to read it or not is not my choice.

I was not the one who first brought up the quality of the work. And I am not the one who suddenly changes the nature of the argument either. But okay, let us dive into intellectual property violation, then. Here is a list of things that will almost always fall under fair use:

Quotations of excerpts
Criticism for purposes
Quotations of short passages for scholarly use/technical work
Parodies
Reproduction of a damaged part by a library
Reproduction by a teacher to illustrate a lesson
Reproduction in a newsreel or broadcast

Could most fanfiction not technically be claimed as being parodies? After all, not every parody is comedic, and fanwork shares many similarities with parodying - both consist of taking an existing piece of work and twisting it in whatever way the plagiarist (Yes, I used that word because it is technically correct) sees fit. As long as the creator of the fanwork is not getting paid for his or her endeavours, I really do not see the problem. If someone read some of the original stuff that I have created and decided that two completely unrelated characters should totally get together and have sex, I would shake my head in disbelief, maybe have a small chuckle over it and then forget it. Getting worked up over something so insignificant seems like a waste of energy.

The entire point of all the fanwank is that no one is making a profit out of it and that the original author is not cut out of the credits. Well, someone might actually be making a profit, but that would be the author, the publisher, etcetera, due to the free advertisement. I have yet to see a piece of fanwork that not only created a huge profit for the fan who made it alone, but also removed the author from the credits.

Well... The Watchemen movie. But he asked for it himself, so you can't really blame Snyder for that.

I believe you are being childish and pretentious when you are berating others for choosing not to do exactly as you think an author should do. As I already stated, you cannot create a truly original work. It is simply impossible. So what do you say you stop forcing your own philosophies onto others and start realising that some people do this out of their own choosing and that it is okay to do so, because they are not actually stealing any kind of revenue from the creator?

As I already stated, I do it because I know that people enjoy my work. Arrogant? Perhaps. But I will rather live with the knowledge that I brightened someone's day than I will keep it to myself because of some artificial honor ideal. Call it validation if you will. But I know that all of the creators whose work I have stolen from would be okay with it if they were to learn of my work (Throughout the last year, the only two people I have done this with have been Lovecraft and Lauren Faust), so I do not see how you have any right to be berating me over this.

EDIT:

What I don't get is people being over-zealous about their intellectual property. If you ever write a story about a hero who sets out on a journey, should Homer be able to sue you for copyright infringement? Furthermore, should the Odyssey be considered crap because it is technically a fanwork based on the Illiad? According to you, it should. I do not understand this.

 

I've read some pretty amazing fanfiction authors that I thought should be writing their own stories. It's difficult to adjust, though -- I used to write fanfiction and since your readers already know about the characters, it's easier to write because you don't have to build up your own world or background.

 

This is actually true. Building up a character from scratch is far more work than just using someone else's work. However, I still think it's fun to dabble in fanfiction from time to time.

 

Most fanfic is not going to fall under the category of parody.

Lack of monetary gain doesn't matter for copyright infringement. That's why there are statutory damages available.

 

If there is no monetary gain for the plagiarist and no monetary loss for the original creator, I honestly fail to see the problem.

 

I'm afraid I'll have to agree on both counts. A parody contains an implied criticism of the work it parodies (for example, how ridiculous the storyline is, or how annoying the characters are). If you use someone's work to criticise a third party, it's satire, and if you take someone's work and turns it up a few notches to the point of absurdity, it's a travesty. It's not just a subtle literary distinction to make college professors feel special; the courts tend to be careful to only use the stricter definition of parody.

Technically, the whole fanfic section on this web site is illegal, and the original author could sue the site and/or the fanfic writer if they decided to be a dick about it. In practice, most authors don't care about fanfic, some encourage it, and the few who frown upon it would most likely just ask for the offending piece to be removed and that'd be it. Like it goes down over on fanfiction.net - they have a very short list of authors who don't allow fanfic.

Which brings me to why an author would want to disallow fanfiction. A Harry Potter fanfic is not a substitute for buying the Harry Potter novels - readers wants to know what really happens in the next book, not some fanfic writer's alternative version. The people who read Harry Potter fanfic are most likely those who have already read all seven novels, watched the movies, chewed the bubblegum, and told all their friends how great it was. And if someone who's never read an author stumbles over fanfic of them, I think it makes them more likely to buy the original books, not less. Successful marketing in the Internet age is often based on creating communities - getting people to meet and talk about your product and do stuff related to it. If you can get an existing community, fanfic writers, to talk about and do stuff related to your product, that's free advertising for you.

So while authors have the legal right to stop people from writing fanfic of their works, I think it'd be crazy to exercise that right.

 

The fact that you fail to see it, or choose not to, is irrelevant. It is still theft of the product of an author's creative process and product. But people are good at rationalizing. Some people will respect the owner of the creative work, and others will not. That's just the reality. You clearly do not.

 

I disagree. I believe as I said.
I guess you don't understand what IMO
means.
Let me educate you, In my opinion("a personal view, attitude, or appraisal")

I guess I should be honored that you care so much about my opinion that you take offense to it.

Create your own world, don't follow someone else in their world.

You can not portray "their" characters as well as they do or can.

 

People also tend to forget the greatest fanfic writer of all time: William Shakespeare. Most of his plays were based on previous works - that is, he didn't just steal other people's characters and premises, he stole entire plots and storylines.

Sorry Mr. Shakespeare, you don't get to belong to the club of real writers who use their own creativity.