Why do we argue?

Discussion in 'The Lounge' started by slamdunk, Oct 13, 2013.

  1. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    We don't disagree with this part: there is a real Universe, no one perceives it exactly right, every convincing argument is still subject to flaws.

    The point of contention seems to be you think no one is closer to the truth than another, that no facts can be discerned with certainty, no sense arguing with someone who doesn't see it the same way.

    Clearly not every argument is worth pursuing. And no doubt you see them escalate into useless negativity much of the time.

    I'm not sure if you are saying you hold the position that there is always middle ground, no one is ever right, or you are just saying some people who are wrong still argue? I would agree with the latter, but the former suggests an underlying premise that there is no definitive real Universe out there. Or that one person cannot be better at perceiving it than another. And I return to the evidence that successful outcomes, (rovers on Mars, cancer cures, etc), does support the scientific process and critical thinking means of getting closer to the real Universe than many other methods/processes. Some people really are right and some really are wrong. There can be times both are wrong, there can be times a middle ground does exist, and there can be times right and wrong depends on which outcome one values more than another.
     
  2. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    No, just no.
     
  3. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh

    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

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    And on a pointless random tangent about my obsession (poverty and charity) , all people are extremely similar, but most people don't notice. Yes, you might not be an 8-year-old in Cambodia picking trash to survive, but you and the kid in Cambodia are very, very similar, as you both need and want the same things.

    Granted, neither Ginger nor JJ is an 8 year old in Cambodia, but whatever.
     
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  4. JJ_Maxx

    JJ_Maxx Banned

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    Why is it that you're so adamant about distancing yourself from me? Throughout this thread I have tried to jest, to bring some things we may have in common and to just generally stop being so polarizing toward each other. And yet every olive branch, every compliment and every positive comment is repaid with virulent negativity.

    As someone said earlier, I can only hope that others will see my attitude toward bridging and mending relationships, even if the object of my actions denies it.

    I really don't want there to be a stigma between us, but until you let down your wall, I fear it will never change. :(

    If I truly offended you deeply in the past, I apologize. I am a prideful, stubborn person and it takes a lot of effort to try and swim against that current but I am trying.
     
  5. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh

    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

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    So, JJ, how badly, on a scale of 1 to 10, would it bother you if I wrote a "How 'Gingham' and 'PJ' became friends in kindergarten" story?
     
  6. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    So you think that a poverty stricken Cambodian kid who tosses a bone to the starving dog sharing the garbage dump is the same as the frustrated poverty stricken Afghani Taliban man who aims an assault rifle at a group of school girls and pulls the trigger? Do you think the Mayan woman who took a few cents to watch my pack, then waited longer than we'd agreed on for me to get back is the same as the slave owner who forces a child to work 16 hours a day, 7 days a week and looks the kid in at night, never with enough food?

    No, people under the same tragic circumstances do not all react to those circumstances the same way. Cultures, values, the processes we use to interpret the world around us, there is plenty of real variation. And the rich are no different, take Bill Gates who many people thought was an underhanded competitor but who now dedicates his time and many of his billions seeking a cure for malaria and providing vaccination programs for the poor. Compare him to the Koch brothers who spend millions on union busting rather than paying workers a living wage and on politicians that pass legislation which favor the rich and hurt the poor.

    No, we are not all the same. It depends on which parts of us you look at.
     
  7. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh

    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

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    And my attempting-to-be-touching post was sadly marred by reality.
    [​IMG]
     
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  8. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Remember, you asked and I assume you want an honest answer, it's not your stubbornness, it's not the fact you believe in a god and I don't. It's not the fact you are a right winger and I lean left. One of my brothers is all of those things and I still love him.

    Plain and simple, your moral values offend me.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2013
  9. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Well put.
     
  10. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh

    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

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    Did you notice the clever collage of Tamaki Suoh too?
     
  11. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    It was so terribly sad.
     
  12. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    I'm fairly sure your moral values are very similar to his.
     
  13. GingerCoffee

    GingerCoffee Web Surfer Girl Contributor

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    Not a chance.
     
  14. Pheonix

    Pheonix A Singer of Space Operas and The Fourth Mod of RP Contributor

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    Faith in humanity: lost.
     
  15. Pheonix

    Pheonix A Singer of Space Operas and The Fourth Mod of RP Contributor

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    Tamaki Suoh for the win. :D
     
  16. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh

    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

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    So, you're a Tamaki lover too? I love him. I could write pages and pages and pages and pages describing my love for him and how much he has made my life better. But that would take too long so here is this image:

    [​IMG]
     
  17. Pheonix

    Pheonix A Singer of Space Operas and The Fourth Mod of RP Contributor

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    Well, he is the best... :D Although I don't think I can approach the levels of adoration that you have for him... My heart belongs to Haruhi lol :p
     
  18. JJ_Maxx

    JJ_Maxx Banned

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    You choose to take offense at our differences, and in doing so you take offense at the individual. It's much easier to find offense than it is to find common ground.

    Yes, some people say and do things that may seem ridiculous to you. But have you ever thought about how you say and do things that are ridiculous to others?

    The issue of being offended has to do with how we choose to respond.

    I am choosing to to focus on the positive and I hope some day you will too. ;)
     
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  19. Lemex

    Lemex That's Lord Lemex to you. Contributor

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    This thread has became one of those great shows. All you can do is grab a pot of popcorn and enjoy.
     
  20. shadowwalker

    shadowwalker Contributor Contributor

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    I'm saying that truth changes as more facts are discovered. I'm not saying that no facts can be certain - only that most people do not know all the facts about anything and can be huge Doubting Thomas's when confronted with facts they have not found or verified themselves. And no, I don't see any sense arguing with some people, because they don't want to learn or discuss - they want to be right. And too often, even normally level-headed people become defensive (and offensive) when confronted with conflicting opinions/data/facts/studies.
     
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  21. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh

    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

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    Haruhi needs her fandom too of course. :p:)
     
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  22. obsidian_cicatrix

    obsidian_cicatrix I ink, therefore I am. Contributor

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    I wish I felt the same... no actually, I don't.

    I find all this quite distressing. Every time I enter a thread and see J.J. and Ginger on it, I cringe. I grew up in a society where people were polarised. It's only now that they have accepted that different stances must not only be tolerated, be to some degree embraced, that they've put the bloody guns away, and I feel relatively safe going about my day to day.
     
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  23. thirdwind

    thirdwind Member Contest Administrator Reviewer Contributor

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    Internet arguments are like Jerry Springer; they're fun to watch at first, but then they just become repetitive and boring.
     
  24. Duchess-Yukine-Suoh

    Duchess-Yukine-Suoh Girl #21 Contributor

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    I don't watch Jerry Springer, but I agree with you.
     
  25. JJ_Maxx

    JJ_Maxx Banned

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    This.

    I agree 100% and while I wasn't innocent in creating this stigma, I am determined to change it. Yes, I don't agree with some of the things Ginger does, but she is still a person, and a mother and deserves my respect. At the end of the day, we need to put aside the issues and see the individuals.
     

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