I think there's also something to be said here for the atmosphere in critique groups. What I've noticed is that people (myself included) feel obligated to participate in some way and often that results in reaching for things that may not be right. People land on those common "rules" because they've heard them a thousand and one times regarding their own work. They've been beaten over the head with "show don't tell", "you need to open with action", "you need to anchor the reader", etc., etc. It only makes sense they would offer that same advice when they feel obligated to offer critique. I don't mean people here specifically feel obligated, but I've been in crit groups and writing courses where it was a requirement for membership or a grade, respectively.
Exactly. I had a lengthy debate on another forum with a guy who thought there was one way and one way only that equated to the "best" way to write. No matter what he critiqued, he would rewrite it in the same generic style resultant of so many of the "rules" of writing you see in forums. And in fact he became quite angry if anyone disagreed with his critique because he would flat out say his way was objectively the way you are supposed to write fiction. A nice guy, generally, but so narrow-minded when it came to how fiction should be written.
Yes, I've seen that as well. Its common. Even on forums I think people sometimes take the view that they have to come up with at least a few suggested changes. Things like show don't tell are easy to default to.
I do feel a bit useless, sometimes, offering a "crit" that's just: I really like this and wouldn't change a thing. Silly, but true.
We all do. It's part of giving back to the writing community and feeling inclusion within a group. We want to be helpful, to give someone meaningful advice. That's why I stick with my contention that it's up to the author alone to take critique and use it to their advantage (which sometimes means ignoring some of the advice). The problem is that it's incredibly difficult as a new writer to know which critique to accept and use, and which to disregard.
An new writers are the most likely to take a bad critique to heart, which can do damage to a potentially unique style, voice, etc.
I can personally attest to the damage that can be done with bad critique (not implying my style is unique or that I'm even a competent writer), but I do take full responsibility for the damage that was done. I'm not sure what I could have done to change the damage, but I know that ultimately it's my responsibility to filter incoming judgment, even extending outside of the writing world.
Yes, it is your responsibility, ultimately. But it can be a hard job for someone starting out, and when I critique I try not to make it harder. I don't post much for critique anymore. I'm more likely to single out individuals I know give advice I consider good and ask them directly.
I would like to think I wouldn't tear apart good writing just because of where I read it or because someone is looking for a critique. I know what I like and what I consider good. I don't think that changes for me when I critique. I'm not looking for mistakes. What I am doing is hoping to read a good story. I don't post stuff for critique online, but in all the workshops I've done in real life I have never heard anyone say show don't tell or anything about passive verbs or many of the rules. that some people seem to get hung up on. I don't know if writers are just expected to know that stuff by the time they are ready to sign up for workshop or maybe those things really aren't what is important when it comes to good storytelling. I'm not saying things don't get torn apart in workshops. It can get intense and people can be really harsh with their feedback sometimes. But I've never felt torn apart just because I was in workshop. Many years ago, I read something about how this writer submitted a famous work to a critique service. Yes, it was torn apart. So, this sort of thing has been done and kind of confirms what some of you were thinking could happen. I think sometimes people are looking for or expecting bad writing. They think they have to find and point out what's wrong in order to help the writer. But if the person who is providing the feedback is wrong, it's not going to help anyone. Maybe wrong is not the right word. I don't know. Can someone critique that and let me know? Maybe I don't read like a writer because that's just not where my mind goes. I read everything hoping it will be great and I will enjoy it, and I rarely feel let down.
I usually read a work for critique twice. The first time through, I do my best to read like a reader and not fixate on technical issues. Then I go back and look at the technical aspects to try to identify why something worked or didn't work for me.
Those "rules" are tools to help explain why a peice isn't sitting well with you. If the piece is working, there's no need to point to rules.
Personally, the need to break the 'rules' has been the motivating factor for most of my (life) writing. My dream feedback is, "What you did shouldn't have worked." Also, there's nothing more annoying than a crit that tells you to adhere to a rule that they themselves don't understand. It's like the story of the twelve monkeys, the ladder, bunch of bananas, and fire hose.
After reading all the posts I think I like this summation best of what a darling is. I could have saved a lot of time, but what a rich treasure of information is buried in this thread. (should cut that second sentence, just a darling you see)
I think the key thing with the rules discussion here is to think of the rules like guidlines. There are exceptions if you have a reason, you can do anything in writing if you have a good reason. And it's important to remember the diversity of writer and reader taste. If something does ir doesn't work for you, does not mean it will or won't work for anyone else. That's why I've been trying to offer critique "this feels kinda wordy to me" or "I think this should be more emotional" or so on. And try to consider what they are going for, not what you are. If you read a noir murder mystery excerpt don't tell them to make it non graphic. If you read a fantasy, don't ask them to explain how magic works unless they want to. Because they need advice that hits their goalposts. (I love my soccer analogy for and will never stop using it).
@Oscar Leigh You've stumbled on the words of one of the greats. "Rules are for the guidance of wise men and the blind obedience of fools." by Solon the Lawmaker of Athens about 600bc < I think there may be exceptions to that rule but I find a solace in making it a faith as I pop through a red light with but a cursory glance. < Strike that darling will you darling
