Sorry to get off-topic: Yeah, NZ's uni is really cheap by comparison to the vast majority of other countries. Its about ~$500 per paper, which makes it about ~$20k for a standard bachelors degree...this is at NZ's best research university, in its biggest city...according to XE.com, thats US$12800 or GBP$7800. Auckland is also the 4th best city in the world to live in, so you should all come here to study and write and create a subculture avec moi!
^I'm obsessed with the idea of leaving something behind. It fascinates me beyond belief to imagine someone reading my words once I'm gone. Wow..
I don't see why what they write would matter. If you know a writer who is willing to help, go for it. If his agent/editor doesn't deal with that genre, they know someone who does. And just to respond to the whole "living modestly" thing. Earlier, I said that the average Canadian writer makes about 7000 a year. That includes the few rich writers like Margaret Atwood, so I'd say most earn less than that. In Toronto, it's hard to find even an apartment that rents for less than 1000 a month. Even in smaller cities, the cheapest places are 500 a month, meaning that if you are an average earner as a writer, with no other income, you only have 1000 to pay for your electricity bill, food, clothes, bus tickets, paper and postage to print and mail your work. This isn't about being negative. It's about being realistic. We should all think positive and do everything we can to sell enough work, but that's not the practical thing to do. The practical thing to do is to be employable. Check author bios and see how many are also teachers or work in the field related to a subject in their book.
I like your assertiveness! Keep it up and goodluck! If you want it and believe it, you will get there!
i was and have been for decades, though i only wrote for money for close to the first 15 years... since then, i've been writing only as a philosopher [my 'day job'], giving away my writings and doing for free what i used to be paid up to $150/hr to do for clients, in my writing consultant business... for those who've established themselves and are known inside the publishing world, or to the general public, it's practical enough, can provide anywhere from an adequate to a very lucrative living... but as a career choice for a beginner, it's not all that practical a path to take, since so few of the countless ones who try will ever make it to that 'making a living' level... not if you don't sell enough of it to justify all the time you spend on it... not for a steady income, unless you're a 'name' with a sizeable following... of course it does... nothing is a 'best' choice, if you're not better at it than most... i seriously doubt that... i'm sure there are far more wannabe novelists submitting their work to agents and publishers, than writers of how-tos and such... and one can much more easily snag a publisher without an agent, with a well-written non-fiction book that there's an obvious need for, than for novels... or did you mean something else, by 'technical'?... nope!... i couldn't say 'feasible' though it's certainly possible... that would be the very rare exception, not the rule... that's what most aspiring writers do, just as most aspiring actors wait tables...
I guess it depends on where you live, but 7000 is more than I have made most years my entire life! So.. yeah. I guess it would be a RAISE for me. Forget that.. it doesn't need to be justified. Writing is always a worthwhile thing to do with your time, no matter if you get paid billions of dollars or nothing for it. I find this entire thread so negative. I know some of you are trying to be "realistic" but let us not forget that life is what you make of it. You can have what you believe you can have, it's just a matter of not giving up.
No one is saying anything about giving up. We're not being half has negative as you probably think we are. We are simply aware of the challenges that we face, and have plans for it.
I don't think it's likely that anybody is going to make any money writing. Maybe a couple people will. Lucky ones. Writing for money is like knitting for money. You won't make a million dollars doing it; you'd be lucky to make a couple thousand; the success stories are for a chosen few who get lucky more than anything else. However, writing is so difficult, so much work, without pay, without promises of pay, without any reward system until there's a final project that will take - first, years to learn to write; then, years to actually write; then, years to find a publisher - that by the time you're published, you could have made a million dollars doing something else with 1% of the effort involved. 1% effort compared to 150% effort. The same paycheck. I personally think anybody who wants to be a writer is insane.
^Um, what are you doing here then??? Being a writer isn't about money. It's about being a writer. ANd the "few lucky ones" (although I don't believe in luck myself) could be ANY of us, no?
Yeah, but I'm suggesting that IT will make a better career, unless you are willing to bleed out your ears for a book. I'm not sure about your situation, but I'm saying that IT is a great career that will provide more of the essentials in life than writing ever will. Why I'm here? I am a tortured soul. There's a couple people who've said it better than I ever could; to paraphrase: If you're not willing to die for your art, don't do it. People have said this about painting, writing, music. But the main point is that it's not a viable method for making an income. As a suggestion, read Henry Miller's Tropic of Cancer. He paints a good picture of what life is like for the average writer. He never received a penny for the book, although it's still published today.
Ah, okay then. Just wondering, you seemed not too pleased with writing there for a second. I absolutely agree. If you aren't willing to die for your art, don't do it. Hell yes. This is what I've been saying. Some people care a lot about money, some care a little, some like me, barely care at all. It just depends. I guess my only argument is this: We could all point to a million people who have failed to succeed at almost anything, from writing to acting to working at Macdonalds. But I believe in Law of Attraction (which is probably where I stop seeing eye to eye with most people) so I don't believe in things like "luck" or percentages of this or that. It's just my personal spirituality, so that's why I'm this way. Sometimes it seems like people are trying to warn others that writing is not realistic as a career choice and that bothers me, because I believe that isn't something anyone can know. NOBODY knows how successful another person might be, even if 100000 people have failed before them. I view most people's "realism" as "pessimism" but it's just my mentality, as I said earlier I guarantee no one here would want to live my life. Certain pursuits take big sacrifices, that's for sure, money being one of them. Then again, can't miss what you never had.. Also, how is the book published without him getting a penny for it? Did he self publish it and then just give it away?
I totally agree. I suppose that I believe: If you are determined enough, you can do anything. However, there's going to be a huge length of time in there, if you choose to be a writer, between learning to write and getting it published; I would say, then, that you should start young, or lose as much sleep as possible, and mainly, bleed out your ears as often as possible to get the work done. In a spiritual sense, I believe in the law of attraction. However, in the day-to-day sense, I believe in luck. Who can say that luck doesn't play a role in destiny? If it's destined, then you're lucky. I'm not sure why Henry Miller wasn't paid. I think it was that he was paid, but almost nothing. He probably sold the rights. Then, the book was banned, resulting in its being submerged for years, after which, it was considered a document of the times and made a whole lot of money, of which he saw not a penny, because, as I'm thinking, he sold the rights for pennies, because he was starving. Also, Seta, the original poster, is an IT professional. He's going to have plenty of money, and to make the million he was hoping for, he's got a better chance doing it in IT, rather than devoting himself entirely to writing - not that he couldn't do both.
If you have a dream and have the push to keep trying, prepare for the agony as well. As Gore Vidal once wrote, writing? Simple. Open up a vein. We have to be thick skinned and so persistent. It may not at first, or ever pay the bills, but if you love doing it, you will do it whatever the hurdle, working full time, being a parent, being a caretaker, being sick and I could go on and on. Like anything, the more you do it, the better you become. Never give up.
Yeah, I mean if he already has the job, why not do both? I certainly agree with that. Unless of course he doesn't enjoy it. I wrote when I had a job before, but honestly it did effect my writing negatively, as there were some nights I was too tired. If you can do both, definitely do both. Don't see why not. Also, this sounds sort of mean, but we also have to consider that some people who are out there "aspiring to be writers" are really not very good. And I don't mean "not good" in the matter of personal taste but I mean not good period. I met a guy who told me he was "looking for a publisher" and I was like, oh, cool, can I read some of your writing and er.. wow.. it was hard to even know what to say. His "Book" was maybe 15 pages and looked like it had been written by a 2nd grader. Some people are delusional about their level of skill. Hopefully I'm not one of them! Heheh.. So if you take out all the people who just plain suck and have ZERO chance.. then take out the percentage of people who have talent but don't have the drive, you are left with a still large yet not quite SO large pool of talented, driven writers to compete with for publication and in the marketplace. I think once you can get yourself into that group, it is just a matter of time before SOMETHING sticks. BUT- I do definitely agree with you all that it could be a LONG time. So be prepared for the wait, just don't let the things you do in the meantime bury your writing in the dust to be forgotten.
I remember scrubbing kitchens for eight hours, mopping floors, washing countertops, then going home and sitting in front of an unwritten novel. I lasted about two days. The horrible thing is that over the course of the next two or three years, I quit writing altogether, made a lot of money, lived life to the fullest - but didn't write. Late at night, a mood would come over me. Eventually, I was up all night writing, but then my job suffered. Eventually, I discovered graveyard shift security work, and at my first job, I was partnered with...a screenwriter. He was doing the same thing.
The comment about justifying really only makes sense if you look at your work as a product. Most people don't. We're happy to do it, and love it if only one person reads and enjoys it. The only reason we want to make money from it is to have the freedom to do it and not be tied down to another job. Though personally, even if I do become one of the lucky few, or find a husband who is willing to support my writing, I'll still keep a part-time job.
Well if you love writing you're going to carry on doing it regardless, so why not have a shot at doing as a living? EDITED TO ADD:l Follow your dreams, just be realistic about it.
Article writing, short stories and writing grants are the bread and butter of the trade. Sadly you're more likely to find your money in writing grants and contests than in the actual publishing, unless you can hit it big. Even then you need to acquire a good agent, or learn to avoid being fleeced. Just remember the words of King Solomon: 'I returned, and saw under the sun, that the race is not to the swift, nor the battle to the strong, neither yet bread to the wise, nor yet riches to men of understanding, nor yet favour to men of skill; but time and chance happeneth to them all.' Essentially, making a big novel deal is mostly a lucky break, which you can weight in your favor by having as much existing prestige as possible. However, seizing that chance is a matter of skill. Start small and wait for that one moment, and when it comes, be ready to grab hold and cling to it for dear life. I've found that writing works best when it is a personal obsession. Even when times are rough you're still sitting outside lord or lady literature's window with a telephoto lens and waiting for the money shot. Unless you're willing to lose a portion of your mind, a lot of your life, and some of your health to the art, you likely lack the fortitude, the sheer bloody-mindedness required to outlast the doldrums of the craft. Hmm, that might be a bit melodramatic, but I think my point is illustrated.
I don't really think understanding the practical side of a fiction-writing career has anything to do with the passion to write, which can be explored in all kinds of settings--even ones where you get paid to do it. And, I haven't found that either the passion to write or an aim for excellence in doing it is the least bit negatively impacted by the odds against making a couple of million and financing a well-funded retirement. Writers have a slimmer chance at success than novices in any other field I can think of, precisely because the "contest" is among anyone who wishes to join in. Not only that, the most influential judges will always be those who turn loose of something of value in order to provide validation, approval, and a launching pad for success (as measured in dollars and cents). So, it's never (and I mean, literally NEVER--even for the pros) easy to know where you as a writer fit into that mix. I think writers are pretty much on their own to decide what to make of the talents they have or imagine they do and (maybe more important than that) what to do about their deficiencies and even how best to identify what those are. It's a difficult road and one that's fraught with opportunities at every stroke of the pen (or keystroke) both to succeed as well as to fail. I think all truly great writers write best out of some experience with both.
Very true. And if you're a writer with enough to wallpaper your room, then at least you can probably count yourself among the more passionate!
Writing as a career is something that would be nice but not something I'm counting on. For now, I'll just write my stories out, and Godwilling, they might make enough money to supplement another income. But alas, I am not going to count on making a living off of it.
